Episode Summary

The wonderful partners behind Elizabeth Andre, author of paranormal, sci-fi, YA, and romance lesbian fiction, join us to discuss sapphic self publishing.

Episode Notes

An award-winning writer and former newspaper reporter, Elizabeth Andre currently writes cozy paranormal mystery, science fiction, young adult and lesbian romance. Elizabeth began publishing lesbian fiction in 2014 and joins us today to discuss why self-publishing is such a great option for the genre.

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Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:01]:

You just tuned into the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs, and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from d two d and their industry influencing guests. You’re listening to Self Publishing Insiders with Draft2Digital.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:00:27]:

Hello, and welcome to self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. My name is Mark Leslie Lefebvre. I am the director of business development with Draft2Digital. Almost forgot my title there for a second. I was like, what am I directing? I’m not am I directing the show? Yeah. Maybe that’s what it is. But I’m hosting this show, and as the host, I am so honored and so privileged that I get to have Elizabeth Andre, not Elizabeth and Andre, in the studio with me. I actually have Victoria and Karen, otherwise known as Elizabeth Andre, in the studio with me, and we’re gonna be talking about, their awesome new book.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:04]:

And I’m gonna pop this up here so we can kinda show it. I well, you’re holding it there, but let’s if I can if I can find a nice picture there it is. There it is. Nice to be covered. It’s a machine, it’s a lesbian fiction, Write Your Own Way by Elizabeth Andre. So, Victoria, Karen, welcome.

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:20]:

Thank you. Well, great to be here. Thank you so much.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:23]:

Yeah. It’s great to see you guys again. So we do have, if anyone has any questions for you guys, go ahead and ask, questions in, the comments. But in in 1st, before we get into this, so I wanna get into Elizabeth Andres. So the 2 of you are writing together. Let’s get back into your collaborations in general. Did have you written together for a long time? Have you always written together? Is this a new thing for you?

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:48]:

So we no.

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:49]:

Not always. No. We started in,

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:52]:

what, 20 10 years ago.

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:54]:

Years ago. Mhmm. Started writing together.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:55]:

Started writing together 10 years ago. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:01:57]:

Yes. So we’ve been married for 15 years. We’ve been writing together for 10 years, and we actually don’t have that much in common.

Elizabeth Andre [00:02:04]:

Yes. We’ve been married to each other.

Elizabeth Andre [00:02:06]:

Oh, yeah. To each other just in case that wasn’t clear. Mhmm.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:02:10]:

And I’m Karen, by the way, and I’m Victoria.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:13]:

Okay. So we got Victoria and Karen Yes. As well, or Elizabeth Andre. So now I have to before we get into this, I’m gonna pop up a couple things. Yeah. So Lexi says this is definitely a topic I’m super excited for. So am I, Lexi.

Elizabeth Andre [00:02:27]:

Glad to hear, Lexi. Nice to meet you, Lexi.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:30]:

And, and, Guillaume said I said something similar, Lexi. Stated this topic is so up my alley. So that’s awesome. This is awesome. And I have my very own is a beautiful signed copy. So the first thing I wanna ask, and and before before I show the awesome signature that I got from

Kevin Tumlinson [00:02:47]:

you guys, I want I

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:47]:

wanna I wanna show off the fact that I I got to meet you in person. And so there’s this little picture we took in November

Elizabeth Andre [00:02:54]:

Yes. There there there there.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:55]:

Not far from the DraftDigital booth. We were at was this is the day of the author book fair, wasn’t it? Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:03:01]:

Oh, yeah. That’s wonderful. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:03:02]:

It was. Definitely. Yeah. That was great.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:04]:

So I got I got my signed copy. I was so happy to get my signed copy. So so here here it is. So interesting. So we have Victoria and Karen, and yet how is it possible that I got a signature from this Elizabeth Andre person? I mean, one of you had to be masquerading as as her.

Elizabeth Andre [00:03:21]:

I guess when when, when it comes to actual signing of the books, I’m the one who is Elizabeth Andre, because Victoria has conceded that duty to me because, I have better penmanship than

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:34]:

she has. Okay. Great. Better penmanship. Does that mean that all the signed copies, if anyone has one, is gonna be, Karen? Those are the ones that you’ve signed. And so if Victoria is somewhere by herself, not not gonna no. Sorry. I can’t I can’t

Elizabeth Andre [00:03:48]:

So there are actually my partner. There there are a few books out there that are signed by me. There are actually a few books out there that are signed by both of us.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:57]:

Oh, that’s even more, precious and and writers can be worth a lot more money on eBay. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:02]:

Someday. Someday. Because, we actually do have a few super fans who have specifically asked for both of us to sign books that we send to them.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:11]:

Yes. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:11]:

And so we’ll do just about anything for our super fans because they’re the best.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:16]:

Yeah. That’s fantastic. And, of course, I have to, Jim, who is the main host of the show. I’m I’m filling in for Jim today, posted a great photo. I think Jim might have been the person who took it too.

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:26]:

Oh, no. Okay. Alright. Nice to

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:27]:

meet you, Jim.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:28]:

I can’t remember. Can’t remember. Anyways, so let’s get let’s I’m gonna start with a basic question. So you’ve got this, book for writers called self publishing lesbian fiction write your own way. Yeah. What is lesbian fiction?

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:42]:

Oh, you wait. You have to start with a dangerous question.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:45]:

Really hard question. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:46]:

Well, I mean, dangerous, it’s just, okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:04:50]:

Well, start with the less well, basically, I mean, it’s, you know, featuring lesbians. And if they’re the main characters, you know, sometimes, you know, lesbians are the only characters in the BooksRead a less fic book. And, you know, not just lesbians, but also bisexual women, queer women.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:13]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:05:14]:

What about the kids whatever it’s like the kids are using. Non binary folk.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:18]:

Okay. Alright. So you’re you’re using the term lesbian fiction, but you’re actually you’re more inclusive in who you’re you’re talking about in terms of the writing of fiction.

Elizabeth Andre [00:05:26]:

Yeah. And they’re actually it it’s fair there’s a very interesting, phenomenon in the lesbian writing world right now. A lot of people are moving toward toward using the word sapphic fiction.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:36]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:05:37]:

More inclusive. And after after Sappho, the Sappho, the Greek poet The Greek poet.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:42]:

Nothing. No. Thanks for explaining that because not all of us are, you know, familiar with Greek.

Elizabeth Andre [00:05:46]:

And that is actually the point. I regularly use both lesbian fiction and sapphic fiction because on one hand, sapphic fiction is more inclusive. On the other hand, a lot of people don’t know what it means. And using words that peep if people don’t know that what they mean, that is a form of exclusion.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:06:04]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:06:04]:

So I I use both of them.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:08]:

Yeah. Okay. That that’s really that that’s fantastic. And and and, again, for the same reason, a comment from Lexi Yep. The OG. Info.

Elizabeth Andre [00:06:17]:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:18]:

So the the same reason why we don’t call this indie author, insiders because people from outside the industry may not know that an indie author is just a fancier way of of self publish. Well, because the only you know, in in self publishing, it’s the independent spirit that drives us. Right? Not necessarily you do everything yourself, but you drive everything yourself, and you control everything.

Elizabeth Andre [00:06:40]:

Yeah. And it’s very it’s very interesting because, you know, we’ve we’ve done this with, like, the word queer over the years. Do you stop using a word that’s stigmatized, or do you work to remove the stigma?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:52]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:06:52]:


Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:53]:

And and and there’s and there’s camps. There’s 2 different camps. Right? No. I don’t wanna use that anymore because other people have have used it in a negative way, but then there’s people like, no, I wanna take that word back.

Elizabeth Andre [00:07:03]:


Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:03]:

Mhmm. Yeah. So so self publishing and then self publishing lesbian fiction. Yes. So let’s talk about the differential, and and is there a differential? What are some of the commonalities? What are some of the nuances or differences?

Elizabeth Andre [00:07:21]:

Oh, to to for self publishing lesbian fiction versus any other fiction?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:25]:

Publishing Or nonfiction.

Elizabeth Andre [00:07:26]:

Or nonfiction.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:27]:

Or nonfiction. Self publishing publishing lesbian nonfiction. There’s

Elizabeth Andre [00:07:32]:

You know, this book, it’s it’s kind

Elizabeth Andre [00:07:34]:

of like the difference between a suit you get off the rack versus a custom made suit.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:07:38]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:07:39]:

You can get there are loads of book about books about self publishing. And there’s your off the rack suit. This is a custom made suit where all the examples relate to lesbian fiction. We really discuss how to categorize lesbian fiction. Yeah. The the most common feedback we get is that, oh, this book is applicable to anybody who wants to self publish, which It’s true. Which is true. True.

Elizabeth Andre [00:08:07]:

And if you wanna use what’s in this book to publish your nonfiction memoir, phenomenal. I think that’s fantastic. We also get a lot of feedback saying the book is very encouraging, which makes

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:08:19]:

me very happy. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Mhmm.

Elizabeth Andre [00:08:22]:

Mhmm. Yeah. We’ve gotten reviews along the lines where people say, oh, I read this, and now I feel like I can do this. Yeah. And that is people should feel that. Yep.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:08:32]:

Right. Right. Okay. That that’s important. Well, the other thing and it’s kinda funny. I was I was I was at a book event in in Toronto, Ontario last night, and I was talking to an author who had a reviewer get really angry because they had, a lesbian character in their novel, and they said the lesbian character didn’t serve any purpose. To which her response was, their purpose was they are real people, and they exist in our world, and we love them. And and and that’s something about that, representation really matters too.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:09:02]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:09:03]:

Yes. Absolutely. I mean, look, there there’s some people who are just they do not wanna read books with lesbians in them. They will not read books with lesbians in them, and they are not our people. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:09:16]:

And also in the, our book about, you know, self publishing lesbian fiction, one other aspect that I guess I mean, we talk about, like, marketing for the book. You know, our examples for where to market the book is, you know, different from where, you know, if you were writing straight romance or something,

Elizabeth Andre [00:09:34]:

you would market your book. Oh, so let let’s talk

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:09:36]:

a little bit about that. So somebody who’s who’s so I’ll I’ll give you an example. So Guillaume, actually writes erotic comedy fiction and some, lesbian fiction. So for, an author like Guillaume, what where would be a place that, they would market that may be different than, you know, where somebody else might be marketing? Just comedy or, you know, romantic comedy in general. Sure.

Elizabeth Andre [00:09:59]:

Iheart Sapphic is a big player in in our in our niche.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:03]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:10:03]:

And they are they have a database of lesbian fiction books. They also run an annual book challenge. So every week so authors at the begin or at the end of last year filled out a bunch of forms, And then the organizers who do a lot of work, every week, they send out an email to their subscribers saying this week’s book challenge which actually we we were BooksRead this week’s book challenge.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:29]:

Oh, really?

Elizabeth Andre [00:10:30]:

Book challenge is read a book with a cuddly animal in it. So subscribers got an email with our book, which is Lesbian with Dogs Seek Same, which, yes, is a love story between 2 lesbians who own dogs.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:45]:

Oh, that’s cute.

Elizabeth Andre [00:10:46]:

And, and a bunch of other stories with cuddly animals in it, and they have all sorts of categories. So there’s Iheart Sapphic. Jay is an author who runs a book

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:58]:

Is it iheart sapphic.com just for just for for Yes. So is it I, the word heart, or is it some sort

Kevin Tumlinson [00:11:05]:

of Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:11:05]:

I, the word heart, and sapphic is spelled s a it’s spelled a little oddly, s a p p h f I c.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:15]:

H f I c. Oh, okay. There you go. So hang on. Let let me let me see if I got this right so I can pop it up on the screen. Did I get that? Whoop. That’s the wrong one.

Elizabeth Andre [00:11:26]:

Yeah. Yeah. That that’s it.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:27]:

Okay. Awesome. I heart sapphic.com. If I could get some assistance from my awesome, DraftDigital people, drop that in the comments, for for us.

Elizabeth Andre [00:11:36]:

Yeah. There’s also queer.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:38]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:11:38]:

no. It’s Iheart. Wait. No. My queer.

Elizabeth Andre [00:11:41]:

My queer. Yes. Right.

Elizabeth Andre [00:11:43]:

And that’s, a paid email service, kinda like a lesbian version of BookBub.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:47]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:11:48]:

And then, like I said, there’s this author Jay with Ilva Publishing, which is a small press.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:53]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:11:54]:

And she runs an annual book bingo, where readers will download these bingo cards.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:00]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:12:01]:

And when they read a book with cuddly animals Yes. Or an interracial couple, they they get a star on their book bingo card. And at the end of the year, they can actually get cash prizes for filling out their bingo card.

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:14]:

And that’s on Facebook. Isn’t that Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:16]:

That’s mostly run on BJ’s, Facebook group.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:19]:

Oh, that is amazing. I I I love that. I love that gamification because I’m I’m a bit of a completionist when it comes to things like trying different beers and stuff. So anytime there’s an app or a stamp or a passport booklet, I’m all over it like

Kevin Tumlinson [00:12:31]:

a g.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:32]:

Right? So this this bingo game sounds like a lot of fun. And it’s it’s community oriented. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:37]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:12:39]:

I love that.

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:39]:

J, j a e j a e Facebook.

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:42]:

Oh, and Jay is like Cher. She only has one name Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:47]:

Or Steve.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:48]:

Okay. Nice and easy. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:12:50]:

Yeah. And it’s jae. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:53]:

J a e. Okay. Cool. Thank you for that. So Naomi pops up this comment. Naomi Rivers says, the book offered excellent detail for finding our readers. So kudos to you guys. So anyone who’s who’s thinking, is this book worth it? Oh, come on.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:06]:

Naomi’s telling you, it is definitely

Elizabeth Andre [00:13:08]:

worth it. Thanks, Naomi. Thank you, Naomi.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:12]:

Awesome. And and, yeah, thank you, Lexi, for dropping in, dropping those ends. And then and so this is this is an important comment. Just gonna pop up from Lexi as well. Lexi says in my experience, while LessFIC is a more niche category in the grand scheme of things, LessFIC readers will climb mountains and trek uncharted lands, to find more sapphic books to which, Naomi agrees as saying definitely we wanna see ourselves Yep. In stories.

Elizabeth Andre [00:13:38]:

Totally agree. Yep. Mhmm.

Elizabeth Andre [00:13:41]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fan fiction, ebooks, paper books.

Elizabeth Andre [00:13:46]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:13:46]:

They’ll read they’ll read authors they don’t usually read. I mean, lesbian fiction is the it’s this niche market, but it’s it’s a hungry market. Yes. And the I had a conversation. This was a few decades ago with the okay. Once upon a time, Chicago where Chicago where we live had a gay book store.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:06]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:14:07]:

And I had a discussion with the owner and she had this this was in the early nineties so this maybe things have changed. But she said that, like, gay men were reading, like, 5 or 6 books a year. Straight women were reading 10 or 15 books a year, you know, aggregate. And lesbians, on average, were reading, like, 80 books a year.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:29]:

Woah. Wow.

Elizabeth Andre [00:14:31]:

And Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:33]:

I mean They’re the coolest breeders ever.

Elizabeth Andre [00:14:36]:

Yeah. So we have this this niche that is hungry. Yeah. Wow. It’s hungry, and it is underserved. Mhmm.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:44]:

Yeah. Wow. It’s that that is that is quite amazing. So when you think about, so when you think when we think about writers and community, we think we’re not in competition with ourselves. We’re writing great books. We’re propping each other up. But when you have a community that’s so voracious, it’s it’s almost, potentially a bit easier for people writing good, lesbian fiction, good sapphic fiction to to find the right readers, for the right readers to be able to because, again, reading 10 books versus 80 books Yeah. Is is a significant, game changer for

Elizabeth Andre [00:15:18]:

for Oh, yeah. Writer.

Elizabeth Andre [00:15:19]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I I mean, I don’t know. I mean, like, Victoria said this a few decades ago, so I don’t know. But I I would say it’s it probably hasn’t changed that much. You know, it hasn’t decreased, I don’t think. Yeah. There’s still

Elizabeth Andre [00:15:32]:

And you’re generalizing. There are obviously some lesbians who are reading probably 300 books a year and some who don’t read that many.

Elizabeth Andre [00:15:38]:

Some who don’t read at all. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:41]:

No. Of course. I mean, the average person the average person in in in America hasn’t read a book since high school. So Yeah. So so those of us who do read are are are the the oddball exceptions, I guess. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:15:54]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:56]:

And and then you get the and then you get the voracious readers, which are quite amazing. I have to pop this up because Alyssa dropped it in the links over, on the YouTube. And bingo. Jayfikr. So bingo link for this year if you wanna participate.

Elizabeth Andre [00:16:09]:

So there

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:16:10]:

there you go. That’s awesome.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:16:11]:

Yep. Thank you. That’s great.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:16:12]:

So let’s let’s talk about that value and the importance of the community. Maybe the the writing community, the the the lesbian, the sapphic community, etcetera. Like, why is community so important for us?

Elizabeth Andre [00:16:27]:

Well, I mean, certainly, historically, it’s been important because, you know, it was it was, you know, dangerous to be LGBT. In some ways, it still is.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:16:39]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:16:40]:

And I remember, both in undergrad and grad school, the fact that there was, you know, a women’s bookstore, you know, was a huge deal because it it was it was kind of like a refuge where you could go and find, books, you know, with, lesbians in it because mainstream bookstores, you know, didn’t shelve those books. They didn’t have them available. There might be, like, an independent BooksRead, particularly if you were living in a college town. They might be more likely, to have, you know, gay and lesbian books.

Elizabeth Andre [00:17:18]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:17:18]:

But, yeah, it it was, and that’s where you’d have community, like a bookstore, perhaps, you know, or even a coffee shop. Yeah. They’d have you know, at bookstores, you’d have readings. I mean, I know I did, when I was in grad school, I did a couple of readings at the local women’s bookstore when I lived out in Massachusetts. And, yeah, that was a place, you know, if if particularly if you were bookish, that’s where you would go, and it’s where you’d meet women because, you know, you didn’t have apps back then.

Elizabeth Andre [00:17:51]:

You know? You talk you’re dating.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:17:53]:

You know?

Elizabeth Andre [00:17:54]:

So yeah. That’s Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:17:56]:

I mean, and speaking of community, I was just thinking of so we go to, Go Girl, Sagatuck every year, which is a small event in Sagatuck, Michigan, in end of June, early May. And keep in mind Early no.

Elizabeth Andre [00:18:10]:

Oh, wait. No. No. End of May, early June.

Elizabeth Andre [00:18:11]:

End of May, early June. Sorry. Memorial Day weekend. Right? No. No. That’s the week after the week. After. So early June.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:18:17]:

And we go to

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:18:18]:

I love watching a couple decide these things when they’re happy with it. So

Elizabeth Andre [00:18:22]:

And keep in mind, there there’s only, like, 300 people who go to event this event only. And we we did set up in the vendor market. And okay. So I’m gonna compare this to the, reader event at 20 BooksRead 50,000, which there there were a few 1,000 readers who came through. Yeah. And we made, a $180 from the 20 BooksRead k reader event, which is good. We had a great time. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:18:49]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:18:50]:

No criticism.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:18:50]:

I I saw us all smiling there. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:18:52]:

Oh, yeah. In the picture. At this little event with 300 lesbians and queer women, we sold, like, $600 worth of books. So we made $2 per attendee.

Elizabeth Andre [00:19:04]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:19:05]:

So Yeah. Yeah. That commute and we had so much positive feedback. Yeah. And we we didn’t have bags. Someone had asked for a bag. So instead, this woman literally, like, walked around the event with her book with the book out and ended up sending all these people to us. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:19:25]:

They’re asking, yeah. What book is that? Oh, I got this weird. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:19:27]:

I got this at the vendor Mart. Co see. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:32]:

Oh, it reminds me of, I’ve I do Comic Cons and things like that at big events where they can get 30,000 people come through, and there’s 50 aisles. And not everyone goes down every aisle, but there’s one that happens in in the city, near where I grew up, which brings in about 4,000 people, and there’s 3 aisles. And virtually everyone goes down the aisle. So the smaller event so it’s almost like the smaller the community, the more and and, again, it’s also when you think about it’s it’s more than each market, you’re not trying to market to everyone. You’re trying to market to the people who are most likely to want to appreciate what

Elizabeth Andre [00:20:08]:

you’re doing.

Elizabeth Andre [00:20:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yep.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:20:11]:

So speak I wanna go back to the marketing. Well, I I wanna follow-up on something Karen said, so I have a little note to come back to that, but I wanna go into the marketing. So it it’s kind of an interesting thing, and and and Alyssa sort of popped this up. In the discussion, people are I love the the discussion everyone’s having in the comments is Indi’s put out the BooksRead big five won’t touch, and and and she because she says, Indi, authors keep me well fed. So I wanna talk about that very specifically. So it’s not publishing lesbian fiction with anyone. It’s self publishing lesbian fiction. Is that because, I mean, it’s a huge market, and yet I’m not seeing a lot of big publishers doing I mean, more so now probably than they were 5, 6 years ago.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:20:52]:

But is that the case where it’s just way easier to get to to the right audience?

Elizabeth Andre [00:20:56]:

So, okay. So there’s lesbian and homophobia that comes externally and internally. And a lot of times what you get with, a big company or even internally, we hear all the time, oh, lesbian books don’t sell. Yeah. There’s all this negative talk. Right. But here’s what happens. So you tell yourself, oh, lesbian fiction doesn’t sell.

Elizabeth Andre [00:21:18]:

So you half assed the book. You half assed the cover. You half assed the marketing. Right. Yeah. And then, oh, what a surprise. Did sell. It doesn’t sell.

Elizabeth Andre [00:21:25]:

Because nothing goes bad. Because you half assed it. Yeah. Not because it’s lesbian fiction, because you half asked it.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:21:30]:

Am I

Elizabeth Andre [00:21:31]:

allowed to say that? I’m like, where?

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:21:33]:

It’s it’s okay. Oh, yeah. Warning. We may use the word ass in this broadcast. So there you go. Hold on. See, I warned them behind the time without a data crunch. That’s yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:21:42]:

Thank you very

Elizabeth Andre [00:21:42]:

much for that. You very much. Yeah. So and and this is I’m I’m a bit obsessed with data. In in my other life, I’m a science writer. I’m obsessed with data. Exactly, Alyssa. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Elizabeth Andre [00:21:55]:

Mhmm. And it is so hard to find good data about how much lesbian fiction actually sells. Yeah. Because okay. So the dominant forces in lesbian fiction, there’s self publishing, which if you look at the bestseller lists on any vendor, they’re dominated by self published books, the lesbian fiction, lesbian romance Yeah. Categories. But there are small dedicated lesbian fiction publishers, Bella Books, Bold Stroke Books, ILVA. They they have these gigantic email lists, and they do a lot of direct selling.

Elizabeth Andre [00:22:31]:

Yes. And those sales aren’t tracked by anybody. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:22:35]:

Right. Yeah. And Like, some of the people taking running to the bank laughing. Laughing.

Elizabeth Andre [00:22:38]:

Yeah. You know? Exactly. Except internally at these, you know, spots.

Elizabeth Andre [00:22:41]:

Correct. They’re not publicly traded. This data is not publicly available. Yeah. And they, you know, they never don’t release the data, and they don’t have to. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s so hard to get good data on the lesbian fiction market.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:22:55]:

Right. Yeah. Mhmm. That is interesting. That is interesting.

Elizabeth Andre [00:22:59]:

Oh, and anecdote does not equal data.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:02]:

No? I thought no. They don’t even rhyme, for god’s sake.

Elizabeth Andre [00:23:09]:


Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:10]:

This is a really good point that Jim raises, because there’s a bit of a discussion about trad pub and indie pub, and this is that the big houses tend not to be the trendsetters. The artists are, because when the artists approve a market, then the houses jump on it and then call it a trend. Artists hold the power. If I could cue up music, I would do that.

Elizabeth Andre [00:23:29]:

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:32]:

Sing with me. Alright.

Elizabeth Andre [00:23:33]:

Yeah. I mean and this actually gets me to a couple of my favorite soapbox topics is that self publishing puts the writer in charge. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:41]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:23:42]:

You know, we’re in charge, and self publishing allows a level of creativity. Self I mean, outside of lesbian fiction, self publishing has created whole new genres.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:53]:

Yes. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:23:54]:

You know, reverse harem, paranormal women’s fiction, which we’re starting to get into, just which are just phenomenal.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:24:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. So so let’s let’s talk a little bit about the the fiction you guys, right, not the nonfiction book. So you said you’re getting into paranormal?

Elizabeth Andre [00:24:12]:

Yeah. I mean, it was something that I noticed,

Elizabeth Andre [00:24:20]:

few I guess, a couple

Elizabeth Andre [00:24:21]:

of years ago, a few years ago, and it’s mostly I’m assuming they’re, you know, straight women writing it. But it it’s it’s essentially what it is. It’s kind of like women who are middle aged, they’ve had some life event, that has caused a new chapter to open in their lives, say they got a divorce or they they’re widowed or something. And oftentimes, the the paranormal part comes in when, I don’t know, they realize they’re witches or they have some sort of power that, you know, was previously unknown to them. Somehow, you know, they and then they, in their middle age, they have adventures. You know? And I found it interesting because a a lot of times, in a lot of fiction and even, you know, in lesbian fiction, protagonist tend to be younger than 40, 45, you know, something like that. Yep. And so in these books, the women were, are, the characters are, you know, their forties, fifties, you know, even sixties.

Elizabeth Andre [00:25:27]:

And, you know, they’re doing amazing things and so on. So and realizing they can do amazing things. So I thought, that sounds really interesting because I’m

Elizabeth Andre [00:25:37]:

a middle aged woman. You know? And I thought, you know what? I would like

Elizabeth Andre [00:25:41]:

to do amazing things, so why not write about doing amazing things?

Elizabeth Andre [00:25:45]:

So that’s why I’m dead.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:25:47]:

I I think about, a Netflix program like, Frankie and Grace, or is it Grace and Frankie? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They always get get it Smashwords. But, I mean, you have, Jane Fonda and

Elizabeth Andre [00:26:00]:

Lily Tomlin. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:01]:

Thank you, Lily Tomlin, who are not in their thirties. And and all the and the the their husbands who leave leave them. Spoiler alert. In the first episode, their husbands did they’ve been friends for their entire lives. Their loves husbands say we’re leaving you for each other because they’ve been in love, in a gay a secret gay couple for all these years, and they finally come out. And it’s this amazing story of people who are not spring chickens, who have lived. The kids are adults, and and yet and yet there’s this sitcom, element to it that’s so unique. But, again, it’s representation because I I’m not the age of the characters on Friends.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:40]:

I’m closer to the age of these people that I’m watching and then you’re joined. Yeah. Yeah. It hurts when I get out of a chair. So stuff like that happens. And and they get to address issues that maybe aren’t

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:00]:

a book like a paranormal, you know, women’s fiction, but, you know, my book, obviously, the protagonist is going to be lesbian. So

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:06]:

So do you guys write fiction together as Elizabeth Andre? Is that a newer thing for you, or is that something you’ve been doing for a while? And and then, of course, Karen, you just talked about, okay, I had this idea. How do how do you how does the book happen when one of you has an idea, and then how do you collaborate?

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:22]:

So went to the first part of the question? Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:25]:

So, I mean, so we are married. So we DD talk to each other. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:28]:

Really? I didn’t know married people spoke.

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:31]:

Well, yes. We talked to each other.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:33]:

You know, stereotypes.

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:35]:

Maybe it’s rare

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:36]:

for other other couples, but,

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:37]:

but we talk. We do. And, so we talk to each other. We talk to each other on a regular basis. At the we there have been times when we’ve actually worked in the same Google Doc at the exact site same time. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:52]:


Kevin Tumlinson [00:27:52]:

And On the same team board. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:55]:

Well, no. Not that. No. Not that. We whichever keyboards.

Elizabeth Andre [00:27:59]:

And then, there well and,

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:01]:

you know, we before we were Elizabeth Andre, we were Danielle Summers and Kendall Morgan.

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:08]:

Yeah. Those were our gay male pen names. Gay male had just weird. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:11]:

Okay. They’re pulling out. Those are now retired names?

Kevin Tumlinson [00:28:13]:

Okay. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:14]:

They’re still available. People still buy

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:16]:

those books. Those are the names, you know, under which we wrote, gay male, Romeo.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:20]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:28:21]:

So we’d already been writing together before, Elizabeth Andre. And, yeah, like Victoria said, sometimes we’re working in the same document, in in Google Drive, or I’m doing the 1st draft or she’s doing the 1st draft, and then I’m doing, you know, vice versa.

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:37]:

So we pass the drafts back and forth.

Elizabeth Andre [00:28:39]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:28:39]:

And, you know, even if, like okay. So let’s say, oh, I’m writing the first draft of this. I still bounce stuff off of Karen pretty much every single day.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:49]:

Right. Okay.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:28:50]:


Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:50]:

Okay. I just I’m I’m curious about the process. I I’ve never coauthored with somebody that I live with. Like, they’re in the same house, so it’s usually at in different time zone even. Right? So it’s kinda like Here you go. By the time I finish my writing session, she’s just waking up. So so that that that that’s a different sort of thing. So that round robin, back and forth can can be a little bit different because, I mean, you gotta get on Zoom to have a conversation where you guys can go, hey.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:16]:

I just put on fresh coffee. You sit down and talk about it. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:29:20]:

Hey, honey. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:22]:

Okay. So I am curious then about, writing in in in the home. Do you both write in the home? Do you have separate spaces? Do you do you write in a communal area? How does that how does that work logistically?

Elizabeth Andre [00:29:34]:

That’s a great question. Because we do well well, we do have our own spaces. Yeah. We do. So we do have our own writing spaces. There are times when we do write in the same space.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:44]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:29:45]:

There are times when we write in coffee shops. And in the before times, I used I used to write do most of my writing on my phone or or on the bus or train to or from the office.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:58]:

Woah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:30:00]:

Wow. And on my lunch break. And it’s really interesting because the the the pandemic, I I have a day job. Karen is full time with with our business, Elizabeth Andre. I now only go into the office 3 days every 2 months, and I’m completely spoiled. Like, I try to write on my phone, and I’m like, I can’t seem to do this anymore.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:22]:

Oh, because you haven’t in so long. Right?

Elizabeth Andre [00:30:23]:

Because I

Elizabeth Andre [00:30:24]:

haven’t in so long. And, honestly, when the pandemic hit, I actually had writer’s block for 6 weeks, which I don’t get writer’s block. Never had it before.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:32]:

I was like,

Elizabeth Andre [00:30:33]:

what’s going on? Because I no longer my routine was so completely disrupted that I had to refigure out how to write again. Because I really was in this very steady stream of get on the bus, get on the phone, do do do do do do do do do. Do it at lunch break. Do it on the way home. And and here’s the thing. When you do that, 15 to 20 minutes in the morning, 15 to 20 minutes in the evening, and 20 minutes in the middle of the day, you’ve just written an hour for the day. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. You filled it in in those chunks. Comments, that, EL James wrote 50 Shades of Grey on a black Blackberry phone. Now we’re dating ourselves.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:31:13]:

Blackberry. So,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:15]:

Alex asked a great question, and the question is, so what do you do if one of you has, writer’s block?

Elizabeth Andre [00:31:23]:

Oh, that’s a good question. What do we so, do something else. Yeah. Because, I mean, we do have other things that we like to do. I mean, I’m I’m an open water swimmer, and I like to work out.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:37]:

Open water swimmer? Like, not so not in the bathtub. Like, what does open water swimmer actually mean?

Elizabeth Andre [00:31:42]:

I swim in Lake Michigan all summer long.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:44]:

That’s like big open water. This isn’t just Oh, yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:31:47]:

Yeah. So

Elizabeth Andre [00:31:48]:

I I actually I used to live in Cambodia, and I swam across the Mekong River. I’ve swum in all sorts of open bodies of water. I love the fact that in Britain, they called it wild swimming, which which I think

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:59]:

is a much It’s not like your arms are thrashing. It’s just

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:02]:

Wild swimming. And, obviously, I mean, I I’m not swimming right now because Lake Michigan is currently 40 degrees. I’m stuck swimming in the pool.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:10]:

A little chilly. Yeah. I’ve only got yeah. Because Chicago, right there, right, you’ve got easy access to big water.

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:16]:

Yeah. We’re, like, 3 or 4 blocks from the lake.

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:19]:

Yeah. Wow. We’re near the beach. Yeah. We have a good life. Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:32:22]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:32:22]:

what do we do in writer’s block? Do something else and come back to it. Okay. And that may mean, like, let’s say you’re stuck on the first chapter. You just can’t seem to write the first chapter. Work on the second chapter. Maybe you need to write that first Yeah. Before you write chapter 1.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:40]:

Right. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:41]:

You can write things out of order. You can switch to different projects. I

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:46]:

guess we usually have, like, 3 or 4 projects Yeah. In various stages.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:51]:

Oh, okay. Yeah. So one’s in editing, one’s in rewrite, one’s in whatever. Okay. Alright.

Elizabeth Andre [00:32:55]:

And sometimes I write flash fiction.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:32:58]:

Mhmm. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:33:00]:

Maybe, yeah, do something else. Like, don’t torture yourself. Like, if things are not flowing like, I actually got stuck last week on a story where I was like, what is wrong with my story? And it turned out I had neglected my secondary characters. Yeah. Like, my primary characters, they they were so beautiful. And secondary characters, I’ve kind of been just peppering them kind of flat. They were flat. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:33:21]:

They needed background stories.

Elizabeth Andre [00:33:23]:

Mhmm. They needed They needed

Elizabeth Andre [00:33:24]:

a little more do. They had a little

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:25]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:33:27]:

Zhoosh. Yes. Zhoosh.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:31]:

So I wanna go back. I made a point of this earlier. So, Karen had said something, and it reminded me of something. So one of the one of the things you talk about you talk about marketing a lot, in the book. You talk about how to get your book in the BooksRead, and Karen talked about doing a reading at a local bookstore. So what are what are some of the tips or suggestions for authors who want to get their indie published book available? And you mentioned coffee shop, BooksRead.

Elizabeth Andre [00:33:54]:

Well, I mean, that was way back when. Yeah. I mean, there are BooksRead, I think, in the in the independent bookstores that still have events like that, have authors come in and read.

Elizabeth Andre [00:34:10]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:34:10]:

lot of times, indie independent bookstores aren’t necessarily the most welcoming to indie authors. Okay. In fact, I think there’s at least one independent bookstore that we know of in the city that charges a

Elizabeth Andre [00:34:28]:

fee $50. To review a self published book. Yeah. Wow.

Elizabeth Andre [00:34:32]:

I wonder if

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:33]:

that’s just a way to to to slow down the deal.

Elizabeth Andre [00:34:36]:

It’s a deterrent. It’s a deterrent. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:39]:

Yeah. All it’s only serious people need to fly.

Elizabeth Andre [00:34:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s you know, indie bookstores are are the best places on earth. You know, they’re right up there with libraries.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:49]:

That’s a

Kevin Tumlinson [00:34:49]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:34:49]:

And it’s very important to remember that even before the pandemic, they were running on fumes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:54]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:34:54]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:34:55]:

Yeah. Now they’ve got either even fewer fumes. Yeah. So indie author the agendas of indie authors, the agendas of indie bookstores are not necessarily in alignment. I mean, indie bookstores are they make a lot of money out of, like, selling Chelsea Clinton’s book or yeah. The bigger books. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:35:15]:

So I guess my point is if you really be wanna be in an indie bookstore and someone says no to you, it’s not personal. It’s a business decision. Yeah. Right. But there are some indie bookstores that are are very amenable to it, very open to it. But but always be nice and never hold a grudge. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:35:34]:

Okay. So so in terms of of that event, is is it a matter of just approaching, I I mean, partake so if it’s a specialty book store and the specialty is within the genre and the target audience, you’re so, I mean, if I walked into a science fiction book store with my nonfiction book on how to write horror fiction or or or whatever, that that’s maybe a bad one. My my how to write academic fiction or something like that would probably be maybe not suitable. Right? So if if it’s a more suitable store, then maybe they’d be even more willing to, to spotlight local authors.

Elizabeth Andre [00:36:10]:

Yeah. And we actually Chicago just opened a horror BooksRead, just so you know.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:14]:

Yeah. Really? Oh, that’s exciting. Gotta get my my my butt back to Chicago apparently. Not just to see to look out on the water and see if I can catch you swimming.

Elizabeth Andre [00:36:25]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:36:28]:

Yeah. I’ll be swimming by the end of May. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:30]:

Oh, there you go. There you go. So you guys I I I do know, from previous conversations that, and you had those retired pen names, that you used to actually sell your your work to various other places, like traditional publishing where you get income

Elizabeth Andre [00:36:44]:

Yeah. Very small.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:45]:

Do do you still do any of that or with small presses or anything like

Elizabeth Andre [00:36:48]:

that? No.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:36:50]:

Nope. Nope. Nope. No. No. No.

Elizabeth Andre [00:36:55]:

No. I mean, I I’m I’m done asking somebody’s permission or opinion as to whether my work is good enough to publish. Yeah. You know, and here’s the thing. I I love small presses and, you know, generally I’m very positive about a lot in the publishing industry. And actually, when we started writing together a decade ago, we started with a small ebook first publisher, and we learned so much from them. Yep. And we learned all this stuff, and then we took everything that we learned, and we self published.

Elizabeth Andre [00:37:28]:

Yeah. Okay.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:37:30]:

And so that’s kind it’s kind of interesting. How valuable or how important is that sort of, internship, let’s say, into the into the realm?

Elizabeth Andre [00:37:39]:

I I mean, if you wanna do if if you wanna do that as kind of a gentle entry, I I think it’s fantastic. But find a good self publisher.

Elizabeth Andre [00:37:47]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:37:48]:

Which actually well, you know what? I’ll I’ll name them because they press. A good small press. I mean, I’ll name them because they’re good. Pain and Hearts Press. We worked with them for a couple years. Yeah. And when we we were moving towards self publishing and when we were like, you know what? We’re we’re done. We’re we’re gonna go a 100% self publishing.

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:05]:

Yeah. And we sent them a note essentially saying, can we have our books back? And we made a deal where, they gave us back our BooksRead, and we we had done some stories and anthologies

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:19]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:38:19]:

And some editing for them. And essentially, they would give us our books back and any royalties they earned from those short stories or the editing, they’d just keep that. And we we would just walk away and it was amicable.

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:32]:

And they also gave us, Yeah. They even gave us the covers. Yeah. So we could use the

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:36]:

Oh, wow. That’s a great relationship. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:38]:

The rights back to our books, and they said, you know, they want us to use the covers that they had signed for those books. So

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:45]:

Yeah. You wanna work with nice people.

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:47]:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Elizabeth Andre [00:38:48]:

Yeah. And just because someone said, oh, I like your book. I wanna publish it. Doesn’t mean they’re right for you. And don’t go all starry eyed. Someone actually likes me.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:38:59]:

They really like me.

Elizabeth Andre [00:39:01]:

Yeah. And and the thing about going with a small press is, you know, keyword small. Sometimes it’s, like, 1 or maybe 2 or 3 people. Yeah. Like, it with with, the publisher that we painted hard press. It was, 2 sisters for several years. And then one of the sisters, she quit. She decided to, you know so, you know but there’s it’s still around.

Elizabeth Andre [00:39:29]:

It’s still a viable press.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:31]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:39:31]:

But, yeah, there’s there is that where you have a small press where there are just maybe a handful of people running things, and it’s, you know, it can be get a little dicey when, who knows, like, personality clashes or any

Elizabeth Andre [00:39:48]:

And you’re still gonna have to do your own marketing.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:39:50]:

Yeah. I

Elizabeth Andre [00:39:51]:

know it’s an alter dream to not have to do your own marketing. You still

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:54]:

have to.

Elizabeth Andre [00:39:54]:

I don’t care how big your publisher is. You’re still gonna have to do your own marketing.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless unless your last name’s Patterson. Your first name’s James, maybe.

Elizabeth Andre [00:40:03]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:05]:

So, I’ve got some great questions coming in, from folks. So so Shani, asks, does the physical aspect need to be the core for lesbian book? So I’m I’m wondering, like, does that mean, like, the physical relationship? Or is it just that, like, I can have a lesbian character in my book, and it’s not about their visit.

Elizabeth Andre [00:40:24]:

I think this is do do you need do you have to have a sex scene? No. No. Yeah. Or yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:40:28]:

I mean, I but I I guess that’s what she yeah. Yeah. It appears to be what she’s getting at, I think.

Elizabeth Andre [00:40:33]:

And we actually we do have books that, we have our paranormal grievance committee chronicle series. I have all my books here. Oh, show up. Oh, it

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:42]:

was There’s a paranormal grievance committee?

Elizabeth Andre [00:40:45]:

Yes. Paranormal grievance committee chronicles. So this is 2 lesbians. It’s it’s not y You, but it is appropriate for young readers. 2 lesbians. They have a paranormal detective agency. There’s a little bit of dating and maybe a little bit of kissing, but it’s all about hunting ghosts and finding cursed objects and other supernatural

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:08]:

It’s not a romance then. It it it it

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:10]:

it it it it it’s not romance.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:11]:

It’s not a romance. No. Which we have gotten some criticism because it’s not a romance, which we do actually say over and over again. It’s not a romance.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:19]:

Yeah. There’s it it’s not even there are no keywords in, you know, in the listing saying Roman, nothing like that.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:26]:

The characters happen to be

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:29]:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:30]:

And and

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:30]:

it’s a group of queer friends Yeah. Who are hunting ghosts.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:33]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:34]:

Oh, Guillaume says, awesome friend of Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:36]:

There’s a blank number. Yeah. Go. Hold that up again just for Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:39]:

That’s her.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:40]:

So this was credit where credit is due. This was designed by Mae Downey, who is a designer in Europe.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:47]:

Awesome. Awesome. Very good.

Elizabeth Andre [00:41:49]:

Yep. And Mhmm. So you you can write lesbian sweet romance where the action stops at the bedroom door.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:57]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:41:57]:

You can also write stories where lesbians are doing other things besides dating. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:42:03]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:42:03]:

we actually we do a lot of other things besides dating and having sex. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:42:07]:

Yeah. I

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:07]:

mean, I mean, in open water, for example, is one

Kevin Tumlinson [00:42:09]:

of them.

Elizabeth Andre [00:42:10]:

Yeah. But but having said that, I mean, romance in less fic is a huge category. Yes.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:16]:

Of course. Yeah. Category. But great to see that representation in paranormal mysteries, like X Files kind of Yeah. Adventures, etcetera. Okay. So this other question we kinda kinda talked a little bit about, but Paige asks, do you have any advice specifically for publishing You or new adult sapphic fiction?

Elizabeth Andre [00:42:34]:

Specific. That is a great question. Because there yeah. There are act well, okay. So in the young adult, the BISAC categories, BSAP care categories, there is LGBT, young adult, but there isn’t specifically lesbian young adult.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:54]:

Right. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:42:56]:

Oh, yeah. Mhmm. So, I mean, I would certainly make it very clear in your, book description, your categories, and your keywords. And, I mean, I would consider categorizing it in the LGBT, young adult fiction. Because, generally, depending on the platform, you’ve 3 or 4 or more categories you can put things in.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:43:18]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:43:18]:

I would categorize it as LGBT, young adult, and then lesbian fiction. And then if there is a romance in there, I I would categorize it as lesbian romance.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:43:29]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:43:31]:

So so that’s what I would do. I I think there is a subcategory for new adult as well. Okay.

Elizabeth Andre [00:43:38]:

Yeah. And also and also if you, self publish, make sure that you can have your books distributed to libraries.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:43:49]:


Elizabeth Andre [00:43:50]:

That’s a good point.

Elizabeth Andre [00:43:50]:

Because, yeah, because a lot of, like, You, you know, books, like, you know, are Yeah. Of course. Through libraries.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:43:56]:

So yeah. And, of course, Draft2Digital does make that so easy for you to get that in the library. So so speaking of we’re getting so close to the end. I do want to pop up the banner. I do know it is read an BooksRead. And if you go to the Smashwords store, you can get self publishing, self publishing lesbian fiction for 50% off, but that ends, end of day, Saturday. And and, this is March 7, 2024. Thursday.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:22]:

Yes. Yeah. Thursday. So your time is running out to get a really, really good and there there’s a link there in the show notes, but, course, of course, you can always search for it. And and the other place I think you can find you guys where can we find you guys online?

Elizabeth Andre [00:44:36]:

Oh, we’re everywhere. But we do we do have a website Yeah. Which that as of yesterday Live. We have a website yesterday.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:45]:

Awesome. Yep. So that is elizabeth hyphenandre.com, and that’s where they can find out everything they need to know about you guys.

Elizabeth Andre [00:44:55]:

Yep. They could contact us, subscribe to our newsletter. Mhmm.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:58]:

Awesome. Awesome. That is fantastic. I wanna thank you guys both so much. It was such a a great time hanging out with you. The 45 minutes went so

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:06]:

Yeah. It really did. That like, we’re at the end.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:09]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:10]:

Oh, that’s the end.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:12]:

Oh, it’s the end. I know. And so I do wanna say thank you guys so much. I wanna thank everyone for the great comments and the great questions. I do wanna remind people, that we do this every week at 1 o’clock EST on Thursdays. You can catch us live. Yeah. You can catch us live every week.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:28]:

And if you don’t want to miss it, you can be sure to bookmark dtdlive.com. I also do encourage you, especially if you like the show, like, comment, subscribe. That way, you know, we can help other people who want to to learn, from these wonderful ladies. You can learn there. And, again, I wanna thank you guys, so much for hanging out with me today.

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:51]:

You’re welcome.

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:52]:

It’s been a pleasure.

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:53]:

It’s been fabulous.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:54]:

Cool. Have a great day.

Elizabeth Andre [00:45:56]:

Thanks. You too. You too. Bye bye.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:45:58]:

Ebooks are great, but there’s just something about having your words in print, Something you can hold in your hands, put on a shelf, sign for a reader. That’s why we created Dedede Print, a print on demand service that was built for you. We have free beautiful templates to give your book a pro look, and we can even convert your ebook cover into a full wraparound cover for print. So many options for you and your BooksRead. And you can get started right now at trap to digital

Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:46:29]:


Kevin Tumlinson [00:46:30]:

That’s it for this week’s self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts and share the show with your will be author friends, and start, build, and grow your own self publishing career right now at draft2digital.com.