Episode Summary

Success as an author can often come down to goal-setting, a skill Honorée Corder is all too familiar with. She joins D2D to share her insights on finding your success.

Episode Notes

Honorée Corder is a strategic book coach, speaker, and author of more than 50 books. She passionately coaches business professionals, writers, and aspiring non-fiction authors who want to publish their books to bestseller status, create a platform, and develop multiple streams of income.

//Draft2Digital is where you start your Indie Author Career// 

Looking for your path to self-publishing success? Draft2Digital is the leading ebook publisher and distributor worldwide. We’ll convert your manuscript, distribute it online, and support you the whole way—and we won’t charge you a dime. 

We take a small percentage of the royalties for each sale you make through us, so we only make money when you make money. That’s the best kind of business plan. 

• Get started now: https://draft2digital.com/

• Learn the ins, the outs, and the all-arounds of indie publishing from the industry experts on the D2D Blog: https://Draft2Digital.com/blog

• Promote your books with our Universal Book Links from Books2Read: https://books2read.com

Make sure you bookmark https://D2DLive.com for links to live events, and to catch back episodes of the Self Publishing Insiders Podcast.



Kevin Tumlinson, Honorée Corder

Kevin Tumlinson 00:02

Well hello everybody. Now when the computer tells me that we’re live, I have no choice but to believe it, I always believe my digital overlords. And so here we are talking to you. Welcome to another episode of Self-Publishing Insiders with Draft2Digital. This is gonna be a fun one because we have a returning guest. Someone I’m always pleased to talk to, and that is Honorée Corder. Honorée, thank you for being a part of the show. And welcome.

Honorée Corder 00:28

Hi, nice to see you, my friend.

Kevin Tumlinson 00:31

it’s been a minute since you and I talked last. I don’t even remember the last time you and I spoke. I think we were at a conference together though. That seems likely.

Honorée Corder 00:41

We were at a conference together in October of 21.

Kevin Tumlinson 00:46

October of 21. Has it been that long?

Honorée Corder 00:49

Well, it seems like I don’t think we’ve talked since then. But I think it was definitely. We spoke then, I remember seeing you, we were hanging out in the back of the room, like probably being naughty.

Kevin Tumlinson 01:00

Probably getting yelled at by the other attendees.

Honorée Corder 01:04

Yeah, be quiet, we’re trying to focus.

Kevin Tumlinson 01:07

We’re like, do you know who we are? We’re OG, we’re speaking at this thing. We’re the OG. We were just talking about this before the show. But you and I, the first time you and I met, we were at the, what was at that time called the Colonists Summit, that was put on by the guys who did the Self-Publishing Podcast, no longer around. That turned into the Smarter Artists Summit later. And you and I, I’ve talked about this with some other folks like Monica Leonardo and Damon Courtney and some others who were in that room, like, almost all of us who were in that room went on to have some sort of active role with the indie author community. Isn’t that weird?

Honorée Corder 01:54

That is so interesting, right? And that was actually my first ever conference where I met my people.

Kevin Tumlinson 02:00

Yeah, the tribe. That’s where it was all born really.

Honorée Corder 02:03

Yeah. Well it was the first time I was ever in a room with other people who were writing and putting books out and doing all those things that you don’t talk about at regular parties, because people don’t want to talk about books all the time. This was the first group of people that I was like, let’s nerd out on books, and they were like, okay.

Kevin Tumlinson 02:23

How much of an influence you think that that had on you and your career?

Honorée Corder 02:30

Well, it’s hard to tell, right? It’s not quantifiable, because there’s the one aspect of the ideas. So coming together with Brian Meeks, and writing books with Brian Meeks. And the relationships that have been brought from that. Our conversations that we’ve had, our little bit of work that we’ve done together. Every single, Amy Tegan editing my books, and Elyssa, and all the names of the people that are kind of flashing through my head. BookFunnel, we were just talking about BookFunnel is a tool that I use every day and share with students and my clients.

Kevin Tumlinson 03:13

It was born in that room.

Honorée Corder 03:17

That was born in that room, all the relationships that were created started in that room, and some of them have endured, and blossomed and flourished. And so it’s really hard to say like, well, would we have crossed paths at another conference? Would we have met in another way? And it was a small group of people, I think there were 24 of us. Which was a small enough group that we all got to talk to each other over the time we were together and all of that kind of stuff. So it’s hard to say. It’s been definitely a nice feather among feathers.

Kevin Tumlinson 03:55

Yeah. Yeah. It’s always just fascinating to me. Because, you know, the group of us were strangers, complete strangers. I don’t know. It’s a testament to me of the value of attending things like author conferences and finding these other people. So, but that’s not necessarily what we’re here to talk about today. But I think it does fold in. But you have a new book out, let’s talk about the new book real quick. What’s the new book all about?

Honorée Corder 04:29

The new book is called You Must Market Your Book.

Kevin Tumlinson 04:33

Well, that’s appropriate.

Honorée Corder 04:35

Yeah, it’s a follow up to You Must Write a Book. So I wrote You Must Write a Book and published it in 2016. And it was kind of my passion put into book form that everyone should write and publish a book. They must write and publish a book. And then recognized that a lot of people write and publish the book and think that that’s the heavy lifting, that the heavy lifting has been done. And now phew, the book is out, now I go take a nap. Now I’ll go do something else. When in fact, marketing is something that should happen yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever. Because if you’ve got a great book, it’s not an avocado, it doesn’t go bad. There’s always another person or group of people that haven’t discovered it. And you must be out there talking about your book, consistently, persistently. On the regular.

Kevin Tumlinson 05:28

I think you’re really missing out by not having a book titled Your Book is Not an Avocado. Well, we can work on that one.

Honorée Corder 05:39

It is something I say, and I get ribbed for it a little bit, which is why I say it.

Kevin Tumlinson 05:44

No that’s good, you’re gonna remember that. So okay, what would you say about marketing? How do you define marketing when it comes to books?

Honorée Corder 05:56

I define it as getting the message out about your book, in whatever form that takes. So it could be in your email, it could be talking on a podcast, guesting on a podcast, it could be doing Amazon ads, right? It’s all part of moving the book into the hands of the person that could benefit them. And I’m not just focused on the sale of the book, I really want people to market the book in a way that then leads someone who is a reader, raise your hand if you’re a reader, who has a list of books to be read right? A pile, we’ve got the TBR pile. In the Kindle, you know, in the app, all of the apps that haven’t been read, and then on the bedside table, and then on the bookshelf. So you want someone to not only find your book, discover your book, you want them to buy it and to read it. And so that really is what marketing is about is connecting your book to someone who will read it and become an evangelist for your book.

Kevin Tumlinson 06:59

Yeah. And it sounds simple. That sounds like it’s really super easy. It’s gotta be super easy, right?

Honorée Corder 07:08

Simple. Simple, not easy.

Kevin Tumlinson 07:11

Simple, not easy, is a good way to describe that. I’m sure you’ve covered some of this in the book. And we don’t want to deter someone from buying the actual book.

Honorée Corder 07:23

Well, we can talk about it, we can talk about all of it. If they want the book, they’ll go get it anyway. So whatever you want to ask, go ahead.

Kevin Tumlinson 07:29

Yeah, we’re not saving you any money, you’re still gonna want to go buy the book, you want it for reference. So what are what are some of the ways that you discuss in the book for authors to market their work?

Honorée Corder 07:42

Well, I actually back the truck up a little bit, Kevin. And I suggest that people think about book marketing differently. And one of the reasons I wrote the book is I wanted to give people the freedom to market their book in ways that work for them. Because when someone says to me, Honorée, you have to do BookTok, you’ve got to be on TikTok, I say, no, I do not. I might be leaving money on the table. And I might not be putting my hand my book in the hands of readers. But that’s just not interesting to me, it doesn’t fit in my personality. I don’t necessarily think that BookTok is the place that my readers are hanging out. I don’t have the time to do it. And I don’t have the money that I want to spend in that way. I have other purposes for my money. So I talk about the four different things people should consider when they’re considering book marketing, which is: What’s their personality? What’s the role of the book in their business? How much time do they have? And how much money do they have? So I want to give people the freedom to market their book in a way that makes sense to them. And then to figure out what their marketing plan is, so they know what to do, when to do it, why to do it, how to do it, where to do it, right? And take all of the guesswork out of it. Because marketing can sometimes be like, okay, I need to market my book, what do I do? And then just kind of a spray and pray. It’s like, I’ll do a little of this. And I’ll do a little of that. And I’ll do a little of this and I’ll do a lot of that and hope that it works and hope is not a book marketing strategy. Sadly. Otherwise, we’d sell a lot more books.

Kevin Tumlinson 09:25

Not a successful one anyway. What advice do you give someone for figuring out what they should focus on? They may want to focus on BookTok or they may want to focus on some other strategy. How do they pick?

Honorée Corder 09:44

Well, they pick based on their personality, so introvert, extrovert, ambivert. Different types of personalities want to do different things, go different places, see different people, right? What’s the role of the book? So you’re a fiction writer, and a prolific fiction writer, you want people to buy your books and read your books, in order, leave five star reviews all the time and tell their friends. So the role of your book is to engross people in the story, to have them love the characters, the scenes, the stories. And so that lives with them forever, and they can’t wait for the next book to come out. They’re talking about this great book that they’ve read. They’re suggesting it to their book club, right? Whereas my book is not like that. My book is a complete, right, I don’t have stories or characters or scenes in my book, it’s completely different. So the role of my book in my business is different than the role of your books in your business. Right? You have to think about what’s the role of the book, how much time do you have? And how much money do you have? If you don’t have a lot of money and you don’t have a lot of time, then you’re probably not going to allocate $100 a day for Amazon ads, or Facebook ads or buying courses or those things. So when you run all of the potential options through those filters, you will be left with things that will work for you personally, that are good for your book, good for your clock and good for your wallet.

Kevin Tumlinson 11:14

Okay. Yeah, one of the hang ups I have always had is I feel like crushing guilt for the marketing I’m not doing. So at a time where everyone else was rushing to do Facebook ads, I was doing other things and felt really guilty for not doing Facebook ads, and now everyone’s doing TikTok and I’m not doing TikTok So what do you recommend for overcoming the existential guilt of the marketing you’re not doing?

Honorée Corder 11:42

Well, I guess the question is, why did you not do those things when everybody else was doing them? And I mean, it’s not a question, right? But it’s like, why didn’t you? Why aren’t you?

Kevin Tumlinson 11:55

I mean, for me, it’s because of what you said that at the time, those things didn’t feel like me. And Facebook ads in particular was a weird one, because everyone was on board with that. And something in my gut wouldn’t let me do it. I had other marketing success with other things. Maybe I would be in the stratosphere right now, if I had, you know, invested at that time, and I do Facebook ads now. But, you know, at that time, I just wasn’t, it just wasn’t my thing.

Honorée Corder 12:25

Well, if it doesn’t fit, you must quit. Right? I’ll do it. Right. And that’s how you let go of the guilt. It’s like, I’m never going to do that. And I’m okay with that. I think the thing is, is people tell you, and I’m one of them, right, you must market your book. So people will tell you what you must do. And if you really don’t want to do it, if it really doesn’t fit with you, if it’s not in alignment with you, then you could make yourself do it. Like dieting. I can make myself diet for three hours, it’s a really long three hours, and then I go eat a cookie, because I’m obsessed with what I want, rather than what I’m doing, or I want to quit doing what I’m doing. So I’m like that, we’re at war with ourselves when we make ourselves do something. And I wonder how many of the everyone was on board with Facebook ads is still doing them and doing them happily? And what I want everyone, what I want authors to do is to love their book marketing. I want them to go, I found the three or four things that I know move the needle on my book sales, and I do them consistently, I do them persistently. I love doing them. I can’t wait to do them. And that’s all I do. Right. So I pretty much do three or four things. And I do them consistently, persistently, and I love them. And I will do them forever. And everything else I look at and go. Yeah, maybe if I ever find an extra five hours that I want to dedicate to that, then I’ll do it. But I never find that, Kevin, because every single minute of every single day is already spoken for. And so if you can find the things that work for you and do them, then just do them. And for some authors, writing the next book is the thing that moves the needle, right? The number one way people find out about a book is through recommendation. And the number one way to market a book is to read another book. Hello. So if you’re a super introvert and you don’t want to necessarily market your book, find another couple of things that you can love enough to do them consistently. And then write another book.

Kevin Tumlinson 14:38

Yeah, yeah. So we’re gonna pivot slightly, because the topic for the show is write your book and crush your goals. So let’s talk about goals. Like, when you’re talking about goals to people, what’s the advice you’re giving them?

Honorée Corder 14:59

I am giving them the advice to set a goal that makes them a little nauseous. Right? Because you have the thing that you want to do, and if it’s too easy, you’ll get started later. If it’s too hard, you’ll never start. But if it’s just right, if it’s the goal that you’re like, wow, I think if I put my back into it, okay, if I give it a go, I can see what I’m made of, and I can achieve the goal. So you want it to be something that makes you a little queasy, because you’re like, oh, I’m gonna have to work for it. But it’s worth it. Because I really do want it. It needs to be time sensitive. Right? So you have to put a deadline on it. Because if you’re like, I’m gonna write a book someday, someday never comes, right? A wish is a dream, a goal is a dream with a deadline. Um, it has to be something that is a little risky, right? It has to be something that’s like, wow, I’m going to have to put something on the line, I’m gonna have to say no to something in order to say yes to something else. It has to be specific. So if you have a seven-year-old in your life, they’re going to be able to tell whether you did it or you didn’t. I want to sell 100 books a day. Did you sell 100 books? Did you sell 40? Did you sell 200? Right? Yeah, there’s no gray area. It’s not 100-ish. So you’d have to be specific and measurable, right? It has to be something that if you do put your effort into it, it’s more likely to be attainable than not. Because if I say I’m going to be a Laker, they’re like, no, there’s no way you can be a Laker. So I can set a goal. It’s specific, it’s measurable, but it’s not attainable, so I’m not really going to do it. And then it has to be something honestly, that you really want, you have to really want it. Or you’ll find an excuse not to do it, right. Like you’ll find a way or you’ll find an excuse, you’ll find a reason or you’ll come up with a story. And so what you want to do is, and also the other thing is when I talk to people about goals, I’m like, just get really quiet about it. Don’t tell anybody about your goal, that’s gonna go, “Who are you to think you can do that?” Or “You can’t do that.”

Kevin Tumlinson 17:15

That’s a tough lesson. That one’s been tough for me and, you know, 50 years on this planet. And I’m only just now learning to keep my mouth shut about my goals and plans and intentions.

Honorée Corder 17:29

Yeah, I only tell the people that I know are gonna go yeah, that’s awesome. Even when it’s a quantum leap goal, even when it’s like, well, this is what I’ve done before. And I’ve been pretty consistent. But I’m gonna go from here to here, right? There’s some people that are like, oh, but I don’t want you to break your little heart, Honorée.

Kevin Tumlinson 17:47

Or they’re just trying to help. But their help is not helpful. My rule is, I’ve got a growing list of new rules. But the way I phrase this one is, never show anyone your idea until you have something you’ve built from it. And once you’ve got something to show them, then you can share the idea.

Honorée Corder 18:10

That’s right. There’s a lot of great advice on the internet right now. And I’m not being cheeky, I’m actually being serious. There’s one thing that I have seen over and over that says like, if you want to achieve something, go dark for six months. Just set the intention, set the goal in your mind, come up with your action steps, and then don’t say a word about it. Just go away.

Kevin Tumlinson 18:32

What do you think it is about that that makes that work?

Honorée Corder 18:37

Focus, lack of shiny object syndrome or distraction. And I think focus is what moves the needle. There are some people that are like, oh, I do all these things. And all this stuff. It’s like, I’m just really focused, like I say no to things so I can say yes to something else. And I’m religious about it almost, right. It’s like, this is the time I’m going to bed so I can get up at this time and do this thing that I’ve committed to doing. And I’ve got a production schedule, and I have all the people that are affected by my production schedule. And if I don’t get the manuscript done, it doesn’t go to the editor on time, etc, etc. And so like, I just focus, and I tune everything else out. And I think that’s the thing that works for a lot of people because I think some people are more susceptible to the voices of others. Right? Why are you doing that? Why aren’t you drinking? Why are you drinking? Why are you eating chicken instead of cupcakes? Why are you doing this exercise program? Why are you not doing this exercise program? Why are you trying to write so much? Why are you trying to create so much? And the questions sometimes have that underlying, like, who do you think you are to try to do that? And sometimes it’s, I’m always really genuinely curious. But I try to be very careful in the questions that I’m asking so that they’re encouraging instead of discouraging, but some people have their jealous pants on. They want you to fail. So you proclaim your goal and they’re secretly cheering, what’s the saying? Like, don’t tell people what your problems are because 80% of them don’t care and 20% are glad you have them or something like that. It’s the same thing with goals. It’s like, talk about what you’ve done, not what you’re going to do. And I think that will be very helpful in crushing your goals for sure.

Kevin Tumlinson 20:32

Well, it definitely keeps the energy confined to the project rather than, you know, because one of the reasons I don’t share book ideas, like when I’m working on a story, I don’t share any of those with anybody anymore, because I’ll spend all that energy. I use up all the storytelling energy and all the enthusiasm by explaining the idea. And now I don’t have it to put into the book. So how do you come up with a trusted circle then of people that you’re you are willing to share stuff with?

Honorée Corder 21:10

Well, that’s a tough one. That’s a tough one, Kevin, because we were talking about this rare air, right? Yeah, there are not very many people. There are not very many people that are producing and creating and accomplishing as you go up the ladder. And so I’m just watching, I’m paying attention. And I’m very careful, the intimate circle, right? So there’s the intimate circle, the inner circle, and everybody else. And that intimate circle is who’s going to help you hide a body? Metaphorically, obviously. But it’s a very small group of people to whom you can share your biggest goals and desires and what it is that you really want to accomplish and what it is you think you’re capable of accomplishing when you focus. And nobody else gets to hear about it, they just get to either help you celebrate after the fact or not. And so if it’s just your spouse or significant other or your best friend. If you’re lucky enough to have a spouse or significant other that you can tell, great, if you’re lucky enough to have a best friend that you can tell, great, if you’re lucky enough to have parents or siblings or other close friends or even like, you know, a mastermind or group of people that are going to do nothing but cheer for you. And you want someone who is going to say, Kevin, if you do every single thing that you have on your list, I will spontaneously combust with excitement and happiness because you did that.

Kevin Tumlinson 22:52

Uh oh. It looks like we dropped out there for a second. Are we back?

Honorée Corder 22:59

Are we back? We’re back. All right.

Kevin Tumlinson 23:03

I don’t know if everyone else saw that. But if you did, we’re back.

Honorée Corder 23:08

I wasn’t interrupted in what I was saying. And this is really important, so I’ll repeat it. What you want is for someone who would spontaneously combust because they’re so happy you achieved your goals. So when someone achieved something that I want to achieve, I believe the highest is the narrowest, right? So what could be coming for me is what I’m experiencing and what I’m seeing. I’m always as happy for someone that they are successful as they are for themselves. You will not find that in everybody. And so it’s really a good idea to find people who are really psyched for you when you’re successful.

Kevin Tumlinson 23:46

Yeah, and unfortunately, for some people, it may not be like family, or even close friends. So sometimes you’ve gotta seek people outside your circle, which by the way brings up, I’ve earmarked a few questions here. I’m gonna bring this one up so we can talk about it. Craig Jones on Facebook is asking, “How do you meet other readers/writers when there are no groups or circles near you? I’ve not had much success gaining a connection online either.” What would you recommend Honorée?

Honorée Corder 24:18

Well, so there are some great writers’ groups. I actually just discovered the Cat Writers.

Kevin Tumlinson 24:25

Oh yes, I’ve spoken at their St. Louis Convention.

Honorée Corder 24:30

I just found out about them. I was like, I like cats, I’m a writer. I’m totally down with this. Craig, there are lots of people who you can connect with in writers’ groups. Am I allowed to say? Am I allowed to say?

Kevin Tumlinson 24:43

Go ahead. Promote whoever you want.

Honorée Corder 24:45

Yeah, so the 20 Books to 50k group is on Facebook. And then they have sub-genre or genre groups. So if you write thrillers or you write nonfiction, or you write romantic comedy or whatever, there are sub-groups there. And then they have conferences and events that you can go to. I have the Prosperous Writer mastermind on Facebook, you can come join that group and connect with other writers. I think sometimes you only need one. Like I have one person I meet with every week. And we’re like doing the, you know, I see you, you see me, like, what did you do? And also this now what question. Like, yeah, so you wrote a book in a week? Who cares? What else are you doing? Right? Someone who’s gonna push you to reach your potential. And one of the things that I did when I moved to Tennessee, Craig, years ago was, I went to the 20 Books group on Facebook and other groups, and I said, hey, I’m new to the Nashville area, are there any other writers here that I could connect with? And then I just picked a bookstore, and we met at the bookstore. And it was the first time of me meeting, some people that I’m now very friendly with. And there’s a writer’s group that started from that initial post, I don’t run it. Kelly actually writes these great, fun thrillers, and she decided to quarterback that and to start the Nashville Writers Group. So you can find one.

Kevin Tumlinson 26:12

That brings up a point I wanted to make, which is, if you are having trouble finding a group to join, then you may be the person who needs to create the group in the first place. It’s that adage that if you look out in the world and you see a hole, it may be shaped like you. That’s probably your opportunity to start something. I’ll say this, I started connecting with more and more authors when I started making sure that I was attending a couple of author conferences somewhere in the world, as often as I can afford to do so. And you know, there’s a lot of them, there’s one in practically every major city, and sometimes they’re in some towns dotted around those cities. And so you should be able to find something. And when you go in, just start looking for the people who laugh at the same jokes you laugh at, who you know, think the way you do. Get your phone numbers into each other’s phones, or your Twitter handles and each other’s things. Do some DMs or whatever, it does take a little time. So I want to be sympathetic to that idea. Like you don’t always click with people right off. But I think there’s enough out there. I met Honorée at a tiny little. I mean, it cost a bit to attend that, but it was that was a life changing experience for me. Okay, got some more questions popped up here. Let’s see, this one I think Honorée, you can help out with. This is Mark Bailey is on YouTube and asks, “I’m writing a book (a novella). It’s almost finished. But I can get sidetracked easily with new book ideas and then start something else. How do you handle that?”

Honorée Corder 28:03

I handle that by having a production schedule and a deadline and booking my editor, because I have all the ideas for fiction and nonfiction. I have a production schedule that I set in November every year for the following year, and any new ideas that come up, because it’s, what, February, and I already have three more books that I added to the end of my production schedule, just on the nonfiction side. So I suggest that you just pencil out ideas. And one of the things that I do is open up a new document, whatever you use. Scrivener, Word, Evernote, whatever. And just while you have the idea, capture all of your thoughts on the idea. And then save it and get out of it and go back to your original project, you’ll want to capture those ideas. A lot of those books may never get written. And a lot of those ideas you may never use, but you’ll never run out of ideas. If you’re just getting started or if you’re just at the very beginning. It never stops. It just keeps coming. And that’s a blessing because a lot of people stare at a blank cursor, and they don’t know what to write. So if you’ve got ideas, then consider yourself blessed. Capture them and then get out of them. Go back to the one you’re working on.

Kevin Tumlinson 29:16

Yeah, I have a million journals, frankly. But I use an app called Day One, which is available on practically every platform, including your iPhone, and I think on Android, and it’s a journaling app. I have a journal I created in there that is just for capturing random ideas and scraps of conversation.

Honorée Corder 29:42

I’m from the South, I like capturing names. Whenever someone’s got a cool name, I’m like, oh, they would make a great character, so I have one document just for fun fiction names.

Kevin Tumlinson 29:56

Yeah, that’s a good one. That’s a good use of time to capture names. Also just snippets of conversation you hear. One of the reasons that I like working from like coffee shops and in hotel lobbies and things like that is you hear the coolest conversations, like people oddly let their guard down when they’re in public in places like that, I think it’s the white noise.

Honorée Corder 30:21

I think also, a writer is always listening. So be careful what you’re talking about.

Kevin Tumlinson 30:27

Yeah. Here’s a comment from Karen Phillips on YouTube, “Love setting a goal that makes you slightly nauseous.” She also asked a question, and I think this may be more of a technical question meant for D2D. But I also think that there may be a marketing philosophy that we can cover here. What is the minimum length of time between preorder and publish date? And on the technical side, I’ll just say, I think you could actually do a preorder that could go, someone in the comments from D2D correct me on this, but I’m pretty sure it’s at the minimum, it’s like next day, possibly even hours later. But it’s probably more of a day thing. I don’t think we can set times. In fact, I know we can’t. So it’s, I think it’s like next day. But what about philosophically?

Honorée Corder 31:17

I don’t do pre orders. I have a tested process for engaging an advanced reader team. And so I don’t do a pre order. I have a different …

Kevin Tumlinson 31:30

So why is that? Why not preorders? I’m not arguing for or against.

Honorée Corder 31:34

No, no, there’s no real argument. It’s a philosophy, right? For me, I have found that when I engage an advanced reader team for a few weeks, and I let them buy the book in advance for a low price. And they have a few days to like, put their review, buy the book, be verified, those sorts of things, right? So when by the time the book is actually live, according to the world, when I say okay, it’s launch day of my book, I launched You Must Market Your Book, I think was 30 reviews. So I had 30 5-star reviews before. And I was asking for honest reviews, but it was my advanced reader team. So they’re biased, right? I’m now at 44 5-star, which I’m sure at some point, there’s someone that’s going to go this is terrible, I hate it, and leave a one star review. That’s fine. It’s validating, right? Because no one, you know, I like the ones that “I didn’t get my book, one star” review or whatever. I don’t actually do it from a preorder perspective, because I want to have control over that process and then announce it to the world with reviews already in place. So that was a technical question for Kevin, but you got the philosophical answer.

Kevin Tumlinson 32:53

I’ve turned it around. You know, I’m just gonna share real quick, my latest one star review, I got a one star review from someone. Because my book, which was released in 2016, one of my books had a plot that was too similar to the book he just read, which was released in 2022. So one star. That’s fair, that’s fair. My book was derivative of the book written, you know, years later.

Honorée Corder 33:26

And you know what, I think we’re all living in all times. Right? If you listen to the quantum physics people, right, so like the person in ‘22 actually wrote their book in 2016. And you wrote your book in 2022. Maybe in an alternate universe?

Kevin Tumlinson 33:41

I will make allowances for quantum realm related mishaps. Here’s a comment from, I’m gonna say Jarmo Syvari. I’m sorry Jarmo for butchering your name. So, “Yes, don’t share for too many too early On my project, only one person knew about knew about it until in the final steps just before publishing.”

Honorée Corder 34:10

I do have something to say about that though. I know some people go, well, I want you to sign an NDA or I’m afraid to say my idea. Like no, that’s not why you keep it quiet. You keep it quiet from an energetic and encouragement perspective, but like, people won’t steal your idea. Because they’re too lazy.

Kevin Tumlinson 34:30

People won’t steal your idea. But not only that, but …

Honorée Corder 34:35

Or they imitate you and they fail. Because they’re not the authentic. I’ve had that done. I had that happen to me.

Kevin Tumlinson 34:42

Frankly, in terms of in when we were talking about groups, and I got a couple of questions and comments on this, but, you know, I have my buddies Ernest Dempsey and Nick Thacker, we’re in a little Facebook group together. We for years have written essentially the same plot for each of our books, by complete accident, but I mean, you could read all three of those books in a row and they’re not going to be the same book. So that’s just not how it works. Speaking of groups and people you can rely on, S.D. Huston. Sorry, S.D. My tongue doesn’t let me say the S first. There’s a great group here on YouTube called Author Tube, you don’t have to publish content to hang out in our chats, and sprints and be a part of the community. So take a look. Look for that. It’s called Author Tube. I was not aware of that myself. I’ve heard of Author Tube in terms of like, I have seen author YouTube kind of stuff, but I haven’t heard of it specifically.

Honorée Corder 35:46

It makes sense. I do want to give a shout out to Ernie. And his manager. Do you know about this?

Kevin Tumlinson 35:54

No, I should probabl. Or maybe I do. What is it?

Honorée Corder 35:56

My husband is his manager.

Kevin Tumlinson 36:00

Oh, that’s right. I do know this. Yeah. So give them a shout out. Oh, well, and I won’t take any offense whatsoever that your husband is not Kevin Tumlinson’s manager.

Honorée Corder 36:12

Well, you can call him, he knows who you are. You can make that happen.

Kevin Tumlinson 36:15

He’s great. He and I have had, we’ve done some stuff in the past. We’ve helped each other out with a couple of things. He’s actually great. Karen Phillips says, “Sisters in Crime (not just for women) is a national group that has chapters everywhere. Lots of in person and online opportunities.”

Honorée Corder 36:35

Yeah, SINC. Sisters in Crime. SINC.

Kevin Tumlinson 36:37

SINC. All right. So there we go. And I’m sure there’s more. There’s all kinds of comments popping in. So I’ll take a look as we chat. But I just want to throw those out there because I don’t want anybody to ever feel like they don’t have a way to connect with someone in this community. It’s such a great community.

Honorée Corder 36:56

Writers are kind of the best.

Kevin Tumlinson 36:58

Yeah. Yeah. And we tend to want to help each other out. Like, we can never just keep it all to ourselves. We want to help people do everything we’ve done. And then we want them to help us in return to do everything they’ve done. So great. Okay, so we got groups, crowds, that sort of thing, by the way, everyone watching and listening, take this opportunity right now to hit like and subscribe and share and all those things. And we’ll be talking about that a little more at the end, of course, but there’s a good opportunity for you to like this video, especially on Facebook, it helps us gain a bigger audience so that we can help more people like you. Okay, so when we’re talking about crushing goals, when do we know when it’s time to maybe give up on a goal? Or should we give up on a goal?

Honorée Corder 37:50

Well, sure, there’s always the asterisk, see fine print below, which is it’s no longer in alignment with the vision that we have for ourselves, right? Sometimes we put something on our plate and go, I really want to do this. And we set a goal around it. And then we realize, I actually really don’t want to do that. It’s not in alignment with my bigger vision, right? So I think goals should be based on a vision. So what’s the vision you have, and then a vision is a picture you have in your mind of what you would like things to be like, which is not concrete, specific, measurable, all those sorts of things, or time sensitive, necessarily. So then you’ve set your goals based on your vision. And sometimes your vision changes when circumstances change. You know, divorce, death, illness, circumstances, right? I mean, there could be things that would cause you to reconsider whether or not you want to give up on a goal, I can tell you when you don’t give up on a goal, that’s when you do have some delays or denials. Just because it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen and you shouldn’t stay in it, stay in the process in the pursuit of it. Because a lot of times, I have set a goal. Many, many times I’ve set goals. And I get to the date when I said this is absolutely going to be done and finished and whatever. And it’s like, I’m 80% of the way there. Do I throw away the 80% or the 8%? No, the answer’s no, you just move the goalpost a little bit and you double down on your effort. And I think there are some questions to ask. And they’re around, you know, have you reached your potential? Did you really try everything? I love when people are like, I’ve tried everything. It’s like, well, you haven’t tried everything. Because if you tried everything, something would have worked.

Kevin Tumlinson 39:47

Well, maybe not. Have you tried everything to be a Laker?

Honorée Corder 39:56

I think the closest would be to buy the Lakers, right? Then I would be a Laker.

Kevin Tumlinson 39:59

That’s the thing. I don’t think it’s so much that you need to, you don’t need to come down on yourself for not necessarily trying everything. You need to decide, what is the price I’m willing to pay? And then try everything up to that price.

Honorée Corder 40:16

It’s a reason or an excuse. Like, I really wanted to go to the theater to see the new release of Top Gun. But I was really sick. So is that an excuse, or a reason? I think it’s a reason. Right? But I was tired. I didn’t feel like getting dressed and putting pants on? That’s an excuse. You have to really just, sometimes you have to call BS on yourself and go, you know what, I really could have done it if I’d wanted to, but I really didn’t want to. Because if I really wanted to, I would have done it. And that’s okay, too. Because you’re a grown person, you can say, I don’t really want to do that. I don’t want to do TikTok, I don’t want to do Facebook ads, right? You’re not letting yourself do it. Or you’re saying that isn’t in alignment, that’s not congruent with what it is that I really want or really want to do.

Kevin Tumlinson 41:02

Exactly right. You need to know, you need to decide what your goals are, values are, and what your price is, what you’re willing to pay. Real quick, I want to throw some things in here, mostly for correcting the record purposes. I knew my team would show and here we go. Lexi to the rescue, she’s the one that keeps me in line the most. “We recommend a three-day minimum,” this is on pre orders. “We recommend a three-day minimum just to give things time to make sure everything’s loaded up and your retail vendors can go live consistently on the day of.” That’s one. My other gatekeeper is Jim Azevedo. He says, “Regarding pre orders, if it’s under 10 business days, you have to have your final cover art and manuscripts. So you have to be actually ready to go live.” And Elyssa, of course, reiterates that. “If you don’t upload your book file, you have to set your pre order date at least 10 days out.”

Honorée Corder 42:04

I love that. They’re like, come on Kevin.

Kevin Tumlinson 42:08

Sometimes I will purposefully say things that I know are going to trigger everybody just to make sure they’re paying attention.

Honorée Corder 42:16

He’s freaking you guys out for no reason. He should be punished.

Kevin Tumlinson 42:20

Oh, I will be, trust me. So Kit on YouTube says, “I found two good critique groups in my city from the Meetup website. Like Mark said,” thanks Mark for weighing in, “if there’s no writer group in your area, in Meetup, you can start your own.” That’s right. And she corrected me on her pronunciation. S.D. Houston, which you think I would know, “A free writing conference here on YouTube. Next one happens 23-25, June 23 to 25. And D2D is our keynote speaker.” So nothing to see here. All right. So we’re coming up on time. And I promised you I would allow you to run when you needed to. Now I put up a banner, Honorée, because I did this while we were talking because I didn’t do it beforehand. Should people visit you at honoreecorder.com? Or do you have another address you’d like them to use? No, that’s wonderful. That’s perfect. So they can find all your books there, right?

Honorée Corder 43:27

Everything, all the things. That’s the hub of the action, of the books, the courses, the mastermind, the speaking, all the things.

Kevin Tumlinson 43:37

There you go. I like when everything is all in one convenient location. You know, unfortunately, I never do that, I always ended up having multiple things popping around. Like for example, you might want to sign up for an account with Draft2Digital at draft2digital.com. But you could also join our print beta if you go to draft2digital.com/printbeta, which is closer and closer every second to no longer being a beta and it is a fully functional service. So if you want to get your books into print, do that. Make sure you are also bookmarking D2Dlive.com. So that you can be cued in on all the all the goings and comings of Self-Publishing Insiders. Thank you brain for finally kicking in at the last second. Self-Publishing Insiders with Draft2Digital and all the things we do. And of course, make sure that you do, this is obligatory, especially on YouTube. Like, Share, Comment and Subscribe. See, that was a whole bunch. I didn’t have one central place. I sent them all to everywhere. Too many Calls to Action. Too many. So Honorée, thank you again for being a part of the show. You’ve been on the show before, we’re kind of revisiting past greats. And you were always, of course, one of those so I look forward … Oh, your book is out and it’s available right now on Amazon. Talk about your book one more time. What’s the title one more time?

Honorée Corder 45:13

You Must Market Your Book.

Kevin Tumlinson 45:17

And it will be available everywhere beyond Amazon soon.

Honorée Corder 45:20

Very soon. Yes. I’m just working my way through the dashboards, all the dashboards. Yes.

Kevin Tumlinson 45:27

All the dashboards. Okay. Well, we make that easy. That part’s easy. All right. Well, thank you again. Everybody else, thank you for tuning in. If you are listening to the podcast version of this, thank you for being a listener and make sure you subscribe to the podcast wherever fine podcasts are sold, and we will talk to you next time. Take care.