Jason Jones, founder of Jones Literary, joins us to talk about how authors should be using public relations, as well as his Local PR Toolkit.
Episode Notes
Jason Jones is the founder of Jones Literary, a longtime Nashville publicity firm, working with authors, experts, publishers and media around the world. With over twenty five years of experience in public relations, Jason joins us to talk about how authors should be using public relations, as well as his Local PR Toolkit.
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Transcript
Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:02]:
You just tuned into the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from D2D and their industry influencing guests. You’re listening to Self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital.
Nick Thacker [00:00:25]:
Well, welcome in everyone. It’s good to see your, well, your little, the little icon of your faces as I’m watching some of the comments roll in. I am not Jim Acevedo, the marketing director here at Draft2Digital. My name is actually Nick Thacker. I’m the vice president, Draft2Digital. Specifically in the author, what’s called the author success department or division. And I’m excited to kind of take the reins from Jim today. Unfortunately I’m not Jim, so it’s going to be a little less polished and smooth probably than what he’s able to bring because he’s a pro.
Nick Thacker [00:00:56]:
But we’re gonna, we’re gonna hack our way through it the best we can. No, I’m just kidding. I’m excited today because this is some, this is a topic talking about. Today we have a professional in here on a topic that I honestly know nothing about. I’ve just been in the marketing world. Prior to becoming, you know, working at Draft2Digital, I was an author. Of course, I’m still an author and so I did all the marketing elements myself. I was in a marketing department at a PPC firm back in the day.
Nick Thacker [00:01:23]:
I’ve done marketing all the time and almost everything within that bucket with the exception of any, any PR stuff. I never touched any of that. So I’m really excited to introduce Jason Jones here. He’s a PR professional. I’m just gonna give a brief intro and then we can, we can jump into things. But Jason’s a founder of Jones Literary, which is a Nashville publicity firm and, and there he oversees the strategic planning, business development and PR campaign execution. So lots to unpack there he works with authors, experts, publishers, media including producers and editors, places like Fox News, cnn, cbs, abc, all those Wall Street Journal, New York Times, dozens of other national outlets as well as hundreds of faith based media outlets. So he’s, he’s got some experience specifically in publishing.
Nick Thacker [00:02:08]:
He’s got six years with one of the world’s largest and oldest publishing houses where he’s led campaigns for 11 New York Times best selling titles. And he’s got over 25 years of experience in public relations. Prior to that he directed PR efforts for a Memphis based firm. And to throw a here, pun intended curveball, he was in professional baseball before that where he managed minor league PR for the St. Louis Cardinals. And Jason, remind me real quick, who’s the, the affiliate for the Cardinals? Is it just called the Cardinals or.
Jason Jones [00:02:39]:
Was it another Memphis Red? Memphis Redbirds are the AAA affiliate. That’s where I was for several years. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Thacker [00:02:44]:
Well, welcome on, man. That’s quite the. I mean, I feel like we’re done here. That was a lot.
Jason Jones [00:02:47]:
So we’ll just hope you guys got.
Nick Thacker [00:02:48]:
Something out of it. We’ll wrap up. No, thanks for being here with us, man. I hope I covered everything correctly. You want. Do you have anything to change in that or to add?
Jason Jones [00:02:57]:
No, you did, you did a great job. I’d never know that you were the fill in man. This is, this is terrific. I feel very important. No, that covers it. I think I probably need to freshen that bio up a little bit though. It’s been a few years since, since I wrote that and you mentioned it on your intro. Just.
Jason Jones [00:03:11]:
You’ve done a lot of marketing, I’ve done a lot of pr. Those things really started to. The line between them is really starting to blur. I don’t know a lot of people anymore that really know where that line is. So we’re doing more marketing, but we’re easing into that. I’ve got smart people that do that for me, but I’m a traditional old school PR guy, so I am doing my best in my, in my twilight years. Here’s where the creep up over 50 to stay, you know, in the know. And, and, and yeah, we got a thriving business here in Nashville.
Jason Jones [00:03:42]:
Doing great. You’re doing a lot of PR work, some social media or building websites, getting into doing some publishing here soon. You know, doing all sorts of great things. So thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Glad to talk.
Nick Thacker [00:03:53]:
No, this is going to be great. I’m, I’m excited. I got already like five different directions. I want to go with this. I want to talk about your work specifically at the PR firm. I know you guys have launched something new, but before we even get into that, I want, I, I, if we can, can you just dig in a little bit? You’ve mentioned it, right? We were talking about it before we, we went live, but this month, marketing versus pr. I don’t, I know they’re not enemies, but, but one is often not the other. And, and you said the lines are being blurred.
Nick Thacker [00:04:16]:
Can you explain though, when you say pr public relations, what are you talking about? How is that not marketing or how is it related? What do you mean when you say PR?
Jason Jones [00:04:26]:
Yeah, well, in my mind, in my 52 year old mind, me, PR is, you know, radio, TV, you know, newspapers, magazines, you know, and 15, 20 years ago, online outlets came into play, and 10 years ago podcasts came into play. And like I said, everything at that point began to blur a little bit because so, so much of our PR work and our big wins today are digital. You know, you’d much, much rather be on some of these big outlets, websites than you would in, in their print publication, of course, but at the same time, you know, I’ve got, I got a foot in both worlds because you can’t abandon the traditional stuff. I mean, there’s a lot of older folks that still buy a ton of books still. You know, they like their TV and radio. There still are a few people out there that read print publications, but, you know, our older audiences aren’t going to find books on booktok, you know, so you got to have a foot in both of those worlds Now. I don’t, like I said, I have smart people on my team who can do book talk and all the social stuff. But you know, for me, the most important piece of this whole thing, whether it’s digital or, you know, new school PR or old school, you got to be able to tell a story.
Jason Jones [00:05:30]:
You got to be able to very succinctly describe to a podcaster or a TV producer, a radio producer, whoever it is, you know, who you are, what your, what your story is, why it’s important and relevant for their audience. Those things haven’t changed. So, you know, all that has changed really is who you’re reaching out to. You know, and those formats are so different. You know, podcasters are the deep dive. You know, they want you to be authentic. They’re going to give you an hour to tell your story, and TV, you might get 30 seconds, you know, so you got to be able to tell your story in a lot of different ways and those are the kinds of things we help prepare you to do. So I guess the biggest change over the last 15, 20 years for us has been just the sheer number of people we have to reach out to and the number of ways that we have to be able to tell our stories.
Jason Jones [00:06:12]:
You know, it’s just when I first remember, I first sat down in my chair at HarperCollins Christian at Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2007 and they set a list down in front of me and told me they wanted me to call a bunch of these folks and start sending out some faxes if you, you can Believe that. And a lot, a lot has changed in the last 18 years.
Nick Thacker [00:06:30]:
So was it, Were you working for Michael Hyatt then? Was that, was he CEO?
Jason Jones [00:06:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. He was, yeah. Smart guy. Smart guy. He’s been ahead of the game for a long time. But, yeah, I remember one of my first trips, 2000, I guess 2008, early we went to, to New York. We’re sitting in a producer’s office there at Fox News. And, you know, I asked one of these guys if they were on Twitter and they told me that was the dumbest thing they ever heard in their life and why would they do that? And, you know, and now, for all intents and purposes, that’s where news breaks.
Jason Jones [00:07:00]:
That is the news. I mean, you’re going to get it on Twitter, you know, or on crazy.
Nick Thacker [00:07:03]:
You know, I mean, I, I don’t know how I would watch. So kind of as a brief, you know, we’re talking stories here, so I’ll tell a story. You know, it’s kind of what we do. But I don’t, I don’t know how to watch the news like that. That was, that’s the story. We have a house in Hawaii and, and there’s, there was a tsunami scare a couple nights ago. And of course, 7:15 their time was like 11:15 our time. So my wife and I are staying up late trying to, But I’m like, I don’t, we can’t turn the TV on because it’s all, it’s like a Roku tv.
Nick Thacker [00:07:30]:
Like, I don’t, do I download the CNN app. Like, I just don’t know how to do it. I get news from Twitter, Reddit, Facebook. I, I, that’s, I wish I didn’t. I wish I wouldn’t admit that live on air, you know, but that’s, you’re exactly right. Like, that’s. The world has changed a little bit. But you, you mentioned it, but you’re finding there’s still a reason to reach out to these legacy media networks, right? There’s still a reason because there’s people consuming.
Jason Jones [00:07:54]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, well, traditional media builds credibility. Digital media builds buzz. And that’s kind of the, you know, so you need, you need both, you know. Okay. But, yeah, and I mean, you said it a minute ago, too. I, News is, you know, and this is a rabbit hole. We could spend a lot more than an hour going down.
Jason Jones [00:08:12]:
We don’t have to do that. But news isn’t really news anymore. We don’t get news. We get editorial and we get opinions and so who do you trust? Who do you believe? What do you, you know, I don’t, I can turn on the traditional news, but depending on whether I’m watching FOX News or cnn, I mean, two completely different stories and some stuff won’t even be covered on one network or the other. So you got to know your audience too. And that’s the thing these days. And you can’t just, you know, if you’re, if you’re a conservative author, you don’t have much reason to pitch your stuff to CNN and vice versa. So you got to be familiar with your audience.
Jason Jones [00:08:41]:
And that wasn’t the case, you know, 15, 20 years ago. So that’s changed a great deal as well. And, you know, just part of, part of the game. There’s so many because the proliferation of podcasts and digital media, there’s a million micro audiences out there now, you know, and as has always been the case, your book’s not for everybody. It’s never been for everybody, but it’s particularly nowadays. You got to really connect, plug into those micro audiences. You got to know where they’re found, who the influencers are in that space, you know, and when I say that, I mean for the most part, you know, podcasters and digital influencers. There are some folks, you know, that crossover into the cable news outlets and other, some of those folks have podcasts or interact on X and other places.
Jason Jones [00:09:27]:
But you just, you just got to know your audience is, and you got to, you got to be able to find them and connect with them and it can be tough. You know, when we first started doing all this many years ago, I could send out, you know, I had 100 outlets. I’d send something out to see all the legacy media folks, newspapers, radio, tv, magazines, you know, and, and that was, for the most part it on the Christian side of the ledger, which is where I was working. You know, you had your, you know, your faith based media outlets and there were 15 or 20 of those and you, you know, bada bing, bada boom, you’re kind of done. And now it’s endless, a number of them. And so it requires a lot more time, requires a lot more tools, you know, and you just, you end up spreading yourself really thin. So I think that would be, I guess, a good segue for me to just kind of interject my biggest piece of advice for anybody that’s working on a book, wanting to promote a book, do PR around a book. You got to start early.
Jason Jones [00:10:22]:
I mean, really, really, really early. We get a Lot of people that come to us that you know, I’ll get an email. Hey, can you help me with PR for my book? Yeah. Great. When does it release? Next month. There’s not a lot I can do for you, honestly. Not only are we booked out a few months down the road, but if you haven’t started doing any promotion or pr, you know, before now, you’re kind of in trouble. So I say start.
Jason Jones [00:10:45]:
You gotta start at least a year early while you’re writing the book, if not sooner, you know, start engaging and priming the pump, building an audience of your own because it just, it takes a lot of time. Sometimes you gotta follow up with a lot of these folks five, six, seven times. And you don’t want to do that every day. You may follow up once a week, but you’re looking at five or six follow ups is two months. You know, and the thing is too with podcasters, you know, that the way they’ve changed the game for us, I don’t know what their production schedules are. And some of them produce a show daily, some are weekly, some, you know, they may get in the studio one day every quarter and record 25 episodes. I don’t, you know, it’s not like it used to be where I can pitch, you know, morning television producers of Mac and pitch radio folks know they got a daily show and they need guests.
Nick Thacker [00:11:26]:
Sure.
Jason Jones [00:11:27]:
So that’s all changed. And you know, the other part of that is too, there used to be a lot more daily programs. Those are going away, especially on the radio side of things. And so there are fewer opportunities out there. And then there are more books being published than ever. So I mean, I think last I saw there was upwards of a million books, between 800,000 and a million books self published last year.
Nick Thacker [00:11:50]:
Yeah, I think half of them are mine. That’s kind of what I wanted to ask because, you know, we talked about this too. You’re very predominantly the non fiction world, specifically faith based books and resources, which is in this case very different from the indie publishing fiction world where speed is one of our main marketing tactics that we can, what levers we can pull. Right. Obviously at some point we lose quality, but that’s kind of the name of the game here is if you can maintain a faster pace than traditional publishing, the 18 month cycle from, you know, a concept or pitch to finish book, then we can win, you know, then we can, we can actually make, carve out a little niche for ourselves. But again, that’s in fiction world, but in nonfiction as well, because I have some books that are nonfiction myself. I’m indie, you know, and so that’s one of the things that’s one of the benefits of being independent is I don’t have to, you know, wait around for edits and things like that. Of course we lose quality sometimes.
Nick Thacker [00:12:51]:
We don’t have a team to work with. But my point is I don’t know that I would be able to wait a year or think a year ahead. Right. So is there a difference between the fiction world in the non fiction world and PR as well?
Jason Jones [00:13:07]:
Oh, man, absolutely. And we don’t do a ton of fiction. I don’t do a ton of kids books. And those two things are, they’re absolutely. It’s just a different job. I mean, there is some crossover in the sense that there are some fiction authors who, to be effective as a fiction author, you got to be an expert, maybe in a particular region of the country. All your books are set in a particular place or they’re on particular topic, you know, and so you’ve done all the research and you live in this place. You know, there are some things that can lend themselves to your, you being an expert and resource on certain things.
Jason Jones [00:13:42]:
And so as news breaks, something happens in a place or in a certain industry. Yeah, you got some knowledge, you know, but for the most part it’s reviews and it’s, you know, it’s chatter in those, in those communities. And fiction readers are just a different breed. They’re different folks than those that are out there reading, you know, autobiographies and, you know, and political, you know, commentary and those kinds of things. So. But you’re right, you said something really interesting about it’s a huge advantage that indie authors have. And you could, something big happens in the world. You know, you could churn something out in the next two or three weeks, you know, get 25, 30,000 words down, and then a month later you got a book, you know, in the marketplace that’s ready for people to.
Jason Jones [00:14:30]:
While the topic is still, you know, current, you can never do that. Traditionally published books, you’ve taken a year, year and a half before something hits a shelf, if you’re lucky. And so that’s a huge advantage. And I think that’s an advantage that a lot of indie authors on the nonfiction side have to really, you know, play up. Because what they don’t have is they don’t have that, you know, that Simon and Schuster logo on the spine of their book. And while, while that is, that’s really changed a lot too. The Last number of years, I mean 10 years ago, if his book was self published, we’d have a really hard time getting placement, you know, on radio, tv, podcasts. But not anymore.
Jason Jones [00:15:08]:
I mean it’s really come a long, long way. Yeah, you can publish a fantastic looking book that no one would know was self published and if you didn’t, you know, open up the, you know, the front cover and see where it came from. But, but you know, at the same time there’s a lot of garbage out there too and people, anybody can publish a book, which is a great thing and not so great thing sometimes.
Nick Thacker [00:15:29]:
So that’s, we’ve been talking about that since the launch of the Kindle. You know, Amazon made it possible for everyone. Kindle direct publishing, you just, hey, take that Word document that you’ve kind of half hat, you know, I can just upload it and there you go. Now you gotta look out and then everybody in the world. So you get a lot more crap out there. But the gatekeepers were, we’re no longer there for better or worse. Right. You have more in the market, so you’re gonna have more books that are high quality, but you’re also gonna have a lot more books that are lower quality as well.
Nick Thacker [00:15:55]:
And they’re. Early on there was a distinct taboo. You know, if it was self published, it was, it was bad. You know, it was automatically just labeled or that’s not the case anymore. I mean I got my books behind me and I defy anyone to tell me the difference. I’m using the same printer, I’m using the same, you know, digital printing versus offset has come so far. Like it looks the same, it feels the same, smells the same, you know, cover design, you know, you got to put the effort into that. Going to put the effort into the editing and the quality.
Nick Thacker [00:16:22]:
But you’re, I’m reiterating what you’re saying there in our, from our perspective as indie authors primarily, that’s what we work with at Draft2Digital. So we are seeing it become less and less different. So yeah, I was just curious about that as well. These outlets that you’re reaching out to, do they care? Do they know? Are they asking that question, is this self published or by the time it gets to you and you pitching it on behalf of the author, it probably doesn’t matter as much anymore, right?
Jason Jones [00:16:49]:
Yeah, no, that’s it. And that’s one of the big advantages if you are one of those self published folks that can afford a resource like a PR firm like ours. Yeah, I mean those Outlets are gonna open our emails. They know us, they trust us, we send them good stuff, you know, so that’s, that vetting isn’t as, you know, necessary. And they honestly, if it doesn’t come from us, they don’t have a lot of time to, they’re not gonna read your book. They get, you know, a stack of books every week. You know, a lot of it is, man, you mentioned cover design. I mean, 90 of these self published authors, that’s where they just, they kill themselves before they ever start.
Jason Jones [00:17:27]:
They agree covered, they try to go cheap on a cover design. And I can tell right away if you weren’t willing to spend a few extra bucks to create a professionally designed cover, then you know that cover copy, yeah, I can tell three or four sentences into your back cover copy, whether it’s something I even want to open or not, you know, so you can’t cut corners there. But I remember who were telling stories again early on in my publishing career. I remember I was on a trip to New York. I was in the offices at the Today show and the producer there, longtime producer Jackie Levin, I went in her office and Jackie had literally had books stacked from the floor to the ceiling around three walls of her office. And I said something to the effect of, wow, how many books do you get a year or something? To that she said, oh, this is just this month. Oh my God, there must have been, I mean, easily a couple thousand bucks, you know, and again, that was 2009, maybe eight, so 17, 18 years ago. So again, that’s changed.
Jason Jones [00:18:30]:
But yeah, it’s, it’s really important that you put together a professionally packaged book and that you, you know, when you’re pitching the, these media outlets, you got, you got to get right to the point. And I don’t have time to read a long email again, you got to be able to know exactly what they want to know. You got to feed them that in a professional way, you know, but a personable way too. Nobody wants to read, you know, something that looks like AI or robot wrote it. It’s. But you got to know what to send it and who to send it to and when to send it, you know, so there’s a lot of different factors that come into play there. But if they, something comes across their desk, compelling subject line, I can see that this is something that’s probably timely. I open it up the first couple of sentences, okay, this person’s got some credentials, they want to talk to me about something that’s timely, they’re available, okay, I’VE got a PDF here that I can open up and look at me.
Jason Jones [00:19:21]:
You got a professionally designed press kit and you got everything that you need. You’re separating yourself out from 95% of the folks out there. Yeah, so those are all really, really important because they just, they just get too much and they filter things out real, real quick. A lot of times, in fact, you know, if you don’t write the right subject line and they’re sitting there looking at their inbox and they got 50, you know, emails that they can see here, they won’t even open it. You know, if the subject line isn’t something that, that tells them immediately why you’re writing what it’s about. And that can be tough to do in 10 or 15 words.
Nick Thacker [00:19:53]:
Probably who it comes from too. I mean, if I’m sending something out to some, you know, local newspaper, they’ve never heard of me before, but they get something from you. You know, you’ve got your PR firm, you got credibility, you’ve got the experience, you’ve got the name recognition. They’re going to see your name on there and they’re, oh, I’m going to open Jason’s and see what he’s got this week. Or is that how it works? I mean, is that, what, is that the art of pr? Is that what that your specialty? That’s why we would pay you to do this, because you’ve got those connections. Right. Like I wouldn’t know where to begin. Yeah, I can build a PR kit.
Jason Jones [00:20:20]:
Yeah, really good.
Nick Thacker [00:20:21]:
That’s the marketing part, you know, but where do I send it? What do I do? Do I just buy an email list and of a million people and hope for the best?
Jason Jones [00:20:29]:
That’d be an expensive email list, man. That’s really.
Nick Thacker [00:20:34]:
Never buy an email list.
Jason Jones [00:20:35]:
I run off your email.
Nick Thacker [00:20:37]:
Do not do that. That’s, that’s bad.
Jason Jones [00:20:39]:
Yeah, that’s where most people feel like they’re at. And that’s why, you know, I guess Shameless Plug, we started a few years ago, about five years ago, we got a lot. So we’re getting a lot of queries from self published folks who didn’t have the resources to put together a full service campaign with us. And even if they did, a lot of them aren’t ready for that, you know, so they were just kind of, you know, they went away without really another option. But we figured out that, hey, you know, a lot of them had, you know, solid, solid book, didn’t have the resources. All they needed was a press kit and an Email list and, and some scripts to help them write these pitches in the right way and a little coaching consultation. So we decided to put together a little package that indie folks could afford. And you know, we’ve done pretty well with those.
Jason Jones [00:21:26]:
I think people have been really happy with them. But the thing is, here’s, here’s the key to that. A lot of those outlets on that media list, I’m not giving you the email for the producer today show, you know, you’re going to get a lot of local, it’s a lot of regional, smaller outlets because those are attainable for you. That’s where you need to start. Especially as a first time author. You don’t want your first interview to be on Fox and Friends because it’s not going to be good. You know, if you haven’t sat down in that chair and had that light come on, you know, and been hit with that question, you’re not sure how to answer. Man, that’s, that’s bad juju.
Jason Jones [00:22:00]:
You don’t want that to be your first, you know, your biggest one shouldn’t be your first one. So start small. Let’s get some seasoning. Let’s understand how quickly that five minute interview goes by. Figure out what you want to say, how, how to slide it into the conversation. You know, when your time’s running out, you just need some seasoning. And so what happens then is you put together a few good interviews, solid interviews. Now I got a clip that I can send to a larger outlet, say, hey, look, I’ve done some media, I got some experience, I’m not going to be a, you know, bust on your, on your program.
Jason Jones [00:22:28]:
And that increases your odds greatly of getting on those bigger programs and you work your way towards that.
Nick Thacker [00:22:33]:
So we help you do that Holiday out in Seguin, his little bookstore that he started, I was talking about PR and he, you know, it’s the game of starting small in local markets, smaller news productions and then just kind of cycling up, you know, just using exactly what you said. You know, just now you have a trip, now you’ve got experience, now you’ve got the credibility because you, hey, he’s been on a show, he knows what he’s talking about. He’s going to give me the sound bites, I’m going to speak in sound bites instead of ramble on for an hour. It’s going to make it all easier for them. And you just kind of cash and you just kind of like, like, like, like, what’s the right word? Trade in, trade up, right to like bigger and bigger markets.
Jason Jones [00:23:07]:
Right.
Nick Thacker [00:23:08]:
I want to go back real quick. You mentioned that, you know, this press kit keeps coming up. What is that? If I’m, I’m an author, doesn’t matter. You know, or maybe it does matter. Fiction, nonfiction, whatever. What is a press kit? What’s in it? What do I need to do to make it look professional so it has a chance of being seen?
Jason Jones [00:23:25]:
Yeah, well, the press kit for a fiction author and a nonfiction author is going to be very different. There are some common elements, but, you know, for a nonfiction author, for instance, you know, it’s. A press kit is going to include everything that a news producer or an influencer is going to want to know in a really digestible fashion. You know, it needs to be clean, easy to read. We don’t need giant blocks of copy. I need to see a headshot, a bio, maybe 150 words. Credentials, we always bullet point those out. You know, so and so’s got 35 years teaching at the collegiate level, you know, 50 years experience professionally as a CPA, whatever it is.
Jason Jones [00:24:02]:
I need to know why your credential to be on my show, okay, I need to know your specific topics and areas of expertise. I need to, I need to see your social, I mean, so we always link to their social because any outlet that books is going to want to check out your social feeds, make sure you’re not a crazy person. They also love it when they know that you can drive traffic to their show because they’re in that game too. So if I jump over to your Instagram feed and see you got 3 million followers, then, you know, that goes a long, long way. I want to see some previous clips. If you’ve done anything, you know, all this stuff needs to be there. I need a short description of your book. You know, give me some suggested questions, some bullet points on why your book is relevant and timely, you know, and then if you get endorsements, those are great too.
Jason Jones [00:24:46]:
But those need to be, you know, if it’s, if you’re sending it out to local media folks that are known around town, you know, but you’re sending it out to larger national type outlets. Obviously they need to be in, you know, a known quantity, these folks, to make an impact. But those are the general, generally those are the, the, the, the, you know, the types of content that need to be in a press kit because you’re going to have that TV producer, radio producer, podcast or whoever, they’re gonna pop it open and they’re gonna maybe give you 15, 20 seconds and if it doesn’t catch me, then it’s, it’s on to the next. So they’re not going to read a bunch of copy. You just, it’s got to be clean. We try to make ours, of course they’re branded in a way that folks know that they have come from Jones lit and we got great looking press kit. But you know, I’ve set on up those office and ask those questions. I just know what they want, I know what they’re looking for.
Jason Jones [00:25:42]:
So we give it to them in a way that the most important information is not on page four. You know, you just, they’re not going to dig for it. You got to make it easy or.
Nick Thacker [00:25:48]:
That experience that you have is more worth its weight in gold. Right. So if someone’s engaging your services, you’ve got, I don’t want to say template because everything’s, everything’s going to be a little different. But like you said, your brand, it’s, they know it’s coming from, from, from Jones Lit. But if I don’t have, let’s say I have a great book and it’s timely and you know, it’s right up your alley for, for stuff that you can help me with, with the pr, but I don’t have those endorsements. I don’t have the, the, the credibility. Are you helping me get that as well as the author? If I engage your firm, say, hey, look here, I’ll get this package put together, the press kit, will you help me find smaller outlets to get that endorsement to kind of get the ball rolling?
Jason Jones [00:26:26]:
Okay, yeah, yeah. And we’ll help you mine, you know, your experience, your bio and kind of figure out ways to make you as credentialed as we can. But there’s only so much I can do too. I mean, you know, I’m not going to pull that out of thin air, but yeah, yeah, and for my, for my purposes too. I mean, and that’s, I said earlier, a lot of those folks, even if they had the resources, they weren’t ready for a full service campaign with us. I’m not going to pitch just everybody to Fox News. I mean, you’re not, you know, that destroys my credibility with them. So yeah, we figure out where you, where you belong, you know, and get you in front of that, that audience.
Jason Jones [00:27:03]:
It’s, it’s again, I mean you’d much rather, and for a lot of these people too, for anybody really, you, you’d rather be on just the right, three or four podcasts than you would be on the Today show. I mean, because those podcast audiences are extraordinarily loyal and man, they are targeted. I mean, it is you, you find your audience, I mean, down to the nth degree in these podcasts, you know, with, you know, a big TV program. Now, of course they’re not going to have you on if they don’t think you hit a fairly significant segment of your audience. But a lot of those folks may be ironing their shirt to get ready to go to work today, then getting the kids ready for school. It’s on, but it’s not, you know, a podcast listener has got their earbuds that they’re there because they want to be there. They’re on the treadmill, they’re in the car, they’re listening.
Nick Thacker [00:27:50]:
You know, as you said, this is the marketing side. Like it’s all much more targeted where TV is. No, I mean that is the mass media. That is the original, traditional, legacy, whatever you want to call it, mass market appeal, which just means everyone’s watching it, but not everyone’s exactly the same as far as interest and stuff and, you know, so yeah, podcast is going to be much more, just by definition, is going to be much more narrow in the, in the market, targeting wise. I wanted to ask you this too, maybe not even ask you, but kind of segue into the thing, the, the local stuff a little bit. You are actually someone’s favorite here. We’ve got a comment. I think we can get it popped up here, but if not, I can read it, but it’s from, I guess, first name storyteller, last name Susan.
Nick Thacker [00:28:34]:
It’s a great name for, for an author.
Jason Jones [00:28:37]:
Yeah.
Nick Thacker [00:28:37]:
Jason Jones, my favorite, his book Landing. Hey, Susan, so, yeah, tell me about this book and tell me, obviously it’s about local media. Tell me about local PR in general. Like why, why that would be important.
Jason Jones [00:28:51]:
Yeah, well, the biggest piece of it is that it’s attainable. Again, you’re relevant because you’re in your hometown market. You know, if you’re, if you’re an expert, you know, we had the big announcement yesterday, the Fed was not going to lower interest rates. You know, maybe you’re a banker and you’re in your mid sized market, you’re in Cincinnati or Memphis or somewhere, and all of a sudden, you know, you may be the only person with that particular expertise reaching out to that outlet to say, hey, I can talk about what the Fed announced yesterday. And so that alone shrinks the competition. But you’re not out there competing with today’s show is not going to have you on to talk about that Cincinnati banker, man, they got plenty of other contacts. It greatly increases your odds of getting a booking. But you can walk in the front door and introduce yourself too, and you know, you’re a person to the, you’re not just an email in their inbox.
Jason Jones [00:29:42]:
But again, it comes back to getting that experience in that smaller setting, you know, you can, that’s something you can do. And it may take you a minute, you know, but it’s, it’s doable, you know, that’s the, that’s the biggest reason that you need to start locally. And like Ron Holiday said, and you just, you work your way forward from there. Still plenty of radio on local markets.
Nick Thacker [00:30:05]:
Sorry about that. I was just gonna say, would you recommend walking into a local news station? I mean, I didn’t think you could. Isn’t it all just like. It’s just one guy in a green screen and then all the productions offline now or, you know, out, out of the building? You know, what does it look like these days? Can I just walk in there?
Jason Jones [00:30:19]:
Yeah. You know, it’s been a minute since I walked into a local TV station, to be honest with you. But no, I don’t think it’s all outsourced and green screen now. And I wouldn’t recommend just walking in the door. No, I mean, of course not, but you could, you know, if you’re, if you were smart enough about it, you know, when they go off the air and these folks may have a minute to talk to you, you know, you could do that, but you drop off a thank you note and things like that, it’s just, it’s a, it’s a more personal venture, you know, so starting, starting locally is just something that I recommend for everybody. And the thing is too, you may get, I mean, maybe you get that, that big hit, you know, on the CNN or the Newsmax or wherever, but local news is something that you can do continually for years. I remember one of our authors, when I first started at HarperCollins, actually worked on a few cookbooks back then. And interestingly enough, I’m from Memphis, and one of our authors at that point was from Memphis.
Jason Jones [00:31:14]:
And so I had some history still back there with a couple of outlets. And so I reached out to them and thought, hey, let’s get Jennifer on. The Super Bowl’s coming. Get Jennifer on to talk about some fun things you can cook up for super bowl parties. And so they had her on, they had a big spread there in the, in the studio. And of course they Loved her. Everybody did. And she became a fixture.
Jason Jones [00:31:39]:
And in fact, she eventually, a year or two later, had a segment, you know, on. On the program.
Nick Thacker [00:31:43]:
Yeah.
Jason Jones [00:31:44]:
And so. But that’s the kind of thing you can do with your local media. You know, you can become friendly with these folks and really carve something out for yourself that’s lasting.
Nick Thacker [00:31:53]:
And again, it’s more targeted because it’s local. It’s. It’s your community, it’s your neighborhood. But, but like you said, I mean, you wouldn’t want to just walk into a place and, hey, I’m gonna interrupt this show to let you know that I’m here. Let’s, you know, put me on. Probably not gonna be able to speak it well. Right. So that would be all the more reason to look at a firm like yours.
Nick Thacker [00:32:11]:
And specifically, I wanted to ask about the local PR toolkit that you guys have. What is that? Yeah, and I know that it’s like a newer thing you guys are doing, right?
Jason Jones [00:32:20]:
Well, yeah, I don’t know of anybody else that’s doing it, to be honest with you, but it’s. Yeah, it’s fairly new for us still. We. We take indie authors and we help you. We help you build these elements out, and we build you a press kit. We’re going to build you a media list of your local media and then. And some regional folks and some podcasts and things too that are. That are relevant to your particular, you know, genre or topic.
Jason Jones [00:32:44]:
We’re going to do some coaching calls with you, talk through all these things, do some media training, mock interviews, things like that. We’re gonna give you some scripts to help you write these great pitches, because even if you’re local, you still got to write a compelling email. You know, you can’t just walk in the door and say, hey, I’m local and I wrote a book. Nobody cares. Right? Because at the end of the day, whether it’s national or local, all they care about is, okay, why is that important to my audience? Why does my audience care? So you still got to figure out how to do that. We do that. So, yeah, that’s what it is. And it’s.
Jason Jones [00:33:13]:
It’s a really affordable, you know, consultation packages that we’ve put together for indie folks. And there’s just a lot of. A lot of them. They’re coming out of the woodwork. So can I ask what that cost.
Nick Thacker [00:33:24]:
Author, or is that something. Is it a range or how does that work?
Jason Jones [00:33:28]:
No, the toolkit’s 1995, so just under 2,000 bucks. And you Know, the thing is with the toolkit, honestly, I’d tell you the media list is worth it just on its own. I mean it’s. Yeah, yeah, you just can’t. I mean, I guess you could. Nothing’s impossible but I mean it would take you just hours and hours and hours to try and find these folks email and even then you don’t know that they’re the right folks, you know. So that’s the biggest piece of it in the consultation package. You know, we do the coaching calls.
Jason Jones [00:33:57]:
We’ve got one of our media trainers spent many, many years on the air national network as a host and a producer. So she knows her stuff. You know, we’re going to help you figure out how to tell your story in a, you know, that five minute TV segment, that 15 minute radio segment that our long podcast. We talk through all those things. Of course you get a copy of the book, you know. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, so it’s a nice little package and it’s something that a lot of people have been able to do. So.
Nick Thacker [00:34:28]:
But just to clarify, this probably wouldn’t be a great fit for a fiction authority just because it’s a little harder to pull the local aspect from it.
Jason Jones [00:34:36]:
Or, or could it. Yeah, it could be. We speak to fiction authors a little bit in the book and, and we can, we can talk, we can talk with fiction authors about how to do what they need to do, but it’s, it’s, it is more primarily focused towards non fiction folks.
Nick Thacker [00:34:50]:
I mean, well, by way of example, actually this, because this is actually a question I have personally selfishly want to ask. So I’m working on a. It’ll be a new series. I haven’t started writing it yet because Draft 2 digital keeps me plenty busy. But it’s, it’s kind of, it’s modern day thriller mystery but the, the historical context is Colorado mining. So I’m pulling real places. You got your, a silver 10, all that kind of stuff and the, the real things that happened in those mines, I imagine, and maybe I’m wrong. This is what I wanted to ask.
Nick Thacker [00:35:19]:
I imagine that would be a much cooler, I should say a much better fit for local firms, local news outlets and firms and all to pick up a fiction book because then it’s relevant to a local locale. Is that true? Would that be something. Yeah, that would work.
Jason Jones [00:35:35]:
I think so. I would. The first place I’d go is the closest major or mid sized market to the setting of your book. I mean. Yeah, that will be my first thought.
Nick Thacker [00:35:49]:
Look The Denver’s obviously a large market, so they’ve got plenty of news outlets there. Multiple to choose from, I guess.
Jason Jones [00:35:54]:
Yeah. Okay.
Nick Thacker [00:35:54]:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Jason Jones [00:35:55]:
And maybe there’s other mining towns. Maybe there’s places in West Virginia that, you know, throughout the Rust Belt. Maybe those folks will be more interested in your book than others. You know, if they got family that’s been in the mining business. And so maybe you hit some of the markets in those places.
Nick Thacker [00:36:06]:
That’s cool. Yeah. I was just thinking, because now there’s a local, there’s a geographic aspect of this, even though it’s fiction. You know, hey, here’s a guy who lives here is, you know, writing this book. He’s an author. But it’s also set in this time. I don’t know, it was just kind of. Kind of spitball in there a little bit.
Nick Thacker [00:36:20]:
But that would be something that I would imagine would be an easier sell as a PR guy than just, hey, some random fiction author with some random book, some sci fi thing, you know, who cares?
Jason Jones [00:36:29]:
Yeah, well, I mean, but there are, There are ways to attach. Even if you’re a sci fi author. There’s, you know, big new summer films coming out. It’s sci fi. Let’s talk about, you know, let’s talk about that. Why do people line up around the block for these movies? What’s the. What’s the appeal? Why do you, you know, and then you get this guy that writes science fiction and maybe been a fan all his life, and you can, you know, there’s ways to tie yourself into events and things that are happening in the world. You know, romance writers, a lot of times they’re pitching themselves around Valentine’s Day because they know romance, you know.
Nick Thacker [00:36:59]:
Yes.
Jason Jones [00:37:00]:
What’s the best summer read for your vacation? There’s a lot of different events and calendar events and things that you can attach your. Your pitches to. But. Yeah, just your random. Go ahead.
Nick Thacker [00:37:11]:
I’m sorry.
Jason Jones [00:37:12]:
Sorry.
Nick Thacker [00:37:12]:
I know. I was, I was thinking. I was. I just. A comment just popped up from Natalie and I hope this isn’t putting you on the spot too much, but kind of in the same context, like taking someone like this. She’s a professional banker for 35 years. She’s got a debut. Debut memoir.
Nick Thacker [00:37:25]:
Two French words smashed. It’s hard. I write non fiction on lived experience. How would I introduce myself in the media? I will say, before you answer, I do know. And maybe, Natalie, you know, this would be good for you. Memoir is just a tricky genre in general because unless you’re a Celebrity. Unless you’re a known entity, people just, they don’t care about someone they don’t know. And, you know, so it’s got to be a really compelling story.
Nick Thacker [00:37:50]:
But let’s talk PR in regards to. How would you. Again, I’m sorry if I’m putting you on the spot here, but how would you approach this? How would you talk to Natalie and say, here’s how we package something together that would be intriguing to some local. Local outlets.
Jason Jones [00:38:04]:
Yeah. I think the biggest thing to remember, you know, is that your book is not news. Your book is never the news. Nobody cares that you wrote a book. It’s about the audience. What’s in it for them, Right? So if you wrote a memoir and your experience was in banking, and maybe you suffered just crippling anxiety or you, you know, whatever it was, that’s, that’s an issue in the world. Everyone has crippling anxiety nowadays. So maybe you could say, hey, look, here’s how, you know, I navigated this.
Jason Jones [00:38:31]:
And in the midst of it, I had, I got a divorce and I had, you know, but I figured it all out. Here’s how I came to that. You know, maybe you. And then, oh, by the way, you know, he. We have so and so here to talk with us today. She’s the author of, you know, and, and so, and, and, and of course, that interview you mentioned a couple of times. Not. You don’t overdo it ever.
Jason Jones [00:38:50]:
But, you know, well, in my book, you know, I, and that was the reason I wrote the book or, you know, you mentioned the book. It’s on this. It’s on the lower third there. And, and, you know, but the book is never the news. So what you’re never reaching out to the news station to say is, hey, I’m. I’ve been in banking for 35 years, and I recently published a memoir. They don’t care about that. You know, again, you got to ask yourself that question.
Jason Jones [00:39:11]:
Why does the audience care? Who is it for? Why do they care? You know, what do you. What is the benefit to them in reading your book?
Nick Thacker [00:39:16]:
Yeah, that’s marketing.
Jason Jones [00:39:18]:
That’s what you’re presenting.
Nick Thacker [00:39:19]:
And that. That’s where I think PR marketing are, that we’re answering the same question is why does the audience care? Why were they going to pick up my Thriller versus Clive Cusslers or James Rollins or, you know, so that’s why. That’s what I have to do when I’m writing the book. The, the marketing for it is, here’s why.
Jason Jones [00:39:34]:
The.
Nick Thacker [00:39:34]:
Why the Plot is fun. Here’s why it’s interesting, here’s why you’re going to enjoy it, you know, so. Yeah, I love that answer. That’s. Your book is not news. I wish it were, but it’s not.
Jason Jones [00:39:45]:
Yep, it is to your mama and your grandmama and your kids, but nobody else cares. I mean, you know, there’s, like I said, a million books I’ve published in the last year. So if you can figure out why your book matters, you know, and, and that’s always, always, always what you’re pitching. If you start with, hey, I wrote a book, you know, isn’t that great? Have me on your. They’re not there to sell your book.
Nick Thacker [00:40:09]:
Yeah.
Jason Jones [00:40:10]:
You know, they’ll tell you to call the ad department. That’s what, that’s what that’s for, you know, so they need, they need to know why it matters.
Nick Thacker [00:40:17]:
So on that kind of note, let’s talk about the outcomes here, like the goals. What are, what does success look like for you with a PR campaign?
Jason Jones [00:40:27]:
You know, I think it varies. I mean, it depends on, you know, the level of the author and, you know, whether it’s publishing house title or it’s indie book. I think ultimately, even with a lot of the publishing house titles, if they’re a first time, second time author, the objective for me, I mean, big picture long term, is to, is to grow an audience of your own. You know, that’s the, that’s the whole idea, is that someday you don’t need media anymore. You’ve got an audience that’s built in, you know, and you’re communicating with them throughout and you’re going to sell a certain number of books because they’re just, they’re your folks and they’ve been with you and they’ve, you know, you don’t, you don’t want to always have to depend on some crash media campaign or market, spend a bunch of marketing dollars to sell your book. So do as much media as you can. Point people back to your website, have them follow you on social where you can create a relationship with them. You know, that’s yours.
Jason Jones [00:41:18]:
That’s the long term objective. So for me, it’s books sold.
Nick Thacker [00:41:22]:
Sure.
Jason Jones [00:41:23]:
But I think the bigger win is to really increase, you know, your follows and your, your social audience. So that’s, that’s the bigger picture. And you, if you want to write more books, you know, if you’re right, you got one book in you and this is it, then that’s a whole different thing.
Nick Thacker [00:41:42]:
Okay, how so?
Jason Jones [00:41:43]:
Yeah, but if you want to continue to write? Yeah. Well, if this is your one shot and you don’t can. A lot of people don’t care to do social. They don’t want to do that. And I get it, you know. You know, if you, if you just got one book in you and you want to sell as many as you can. Yeah. You’re going to need to buy Amazon ads and spend marketing dollars.
Jason Jones [00:42:03]:
And it’s a bit different strategy when you’re doing those media interviews. You’re pointing people to Amazon or back to your landing page where they can buy the book. But if you, if you want to write and you got several more books you want to, you want to write, then the objective really is, yes, you can point them to Amazon or wherever, but I want you to be compelling and interesting and entertaining on the air. So people say, hey, I really like this person. I want to hear more after this interview’s over. I wish there was more. Where can I. So I’m going to go follow them on Instagram or somewhere else.
Jason Jones [00:42:38]:
And then all of a sudden they’re in my feed. And then, you know, then I buy the book. But then I also buy the next book and the next book because you’re, you know, buy your backlist. Right? Yeah, right, right. It’s. Nobody wants to be sold. No one likes being sold. So I don’t want you to sell me a product.
Jason Jones [00:42:52]:
I want you. I want to like, you know, you like you trust you.
Nick Thacker [00:42:55]:
I love.
Jason Jones [00:42:56]:
And if I do that, that’s the thing.
Nick Thacker [00:42:57]:
PR and marketing, it’s all the same thing. I’m loving this because this is literally. And if I may, I. I get up on stage and I talk to authors about marketing. That’s all. That’s what I’d love to do. And that’s. I’m good at it.
Nick Thacker [00:43:07]:
And one of the things I’ve come to say almost every time, especially regarding social media, just every author’s like, well, I hate social media. I want to do social media. It sounds gross. I don’t want to. Whatever. You know, they have the reasons and they’re valid reasons. But I always tell people you’re building social profiles to be attractive, not to attract.
Jason Jones [00:43:25]:
Right.
Nick Thacker [00:43:25]:
You’re not trying to go on social media on Twitter, X whatever, and say, hey, buy my book. You’re creating this, this online version of yourself and if you’ve got a pen name, maybe it’s the pen name version, who cares? But you’re building this online Persona so that people who are going to like you, they see that, and they know right away they’re with their people, that, hey, I found a person. I found my guy. They come to my page, they go, oh, he likes whiskey, cigars, hockey, Colorado Avalanche all the way. Not the Nashville Predators, never. You know, so. And then, you know, okay, he’s sarcastic, he’s humorous. Like, immediately, I want them to feel like, oh, if.
Nick Thacker [00:44:00]:
If I like that sort of stuff, then I’ll like this guy. And then eventually, maybe long time after the fact, they’ve started following me. They realize I’m an author, and they know, go check out my books. It’s very similar what you’re talking about. Like, you’re. You’re not pitching a book. You’re not selling one book. You’re selling yourself.
Nick Thacker [00:44:15]:
You’re selling the person, the author. Right.
Jason Jones [00:44:17]:
Yeah. No, that’s absolutely right. I mean, a million percent. There’s. People want to. They want to relate to you. You know, I get sold products all day, every day. I don’t.
Jason Jones [00:44:26]:
They’re not. It’s not memorable. You know, it’s. It’s. It’s unfortunate, I guess, in the sense that, you know, a lot of people don’t want to do that. And again, I get it. But, you know, see, one of your commenters here says that they want to be invisible. And, I mean, I get it, but good luck selling books.
Jason Jones [00:44:44]:
I mean, being invisible. I don’t know. You can spend a lot of marketing dollars, you know, you can, but without participating in the marketplace, without being a part of the conversation the marketplace is having, you’re just another product. I mean, and so, yes, people like Stephen King have sold tens of millions of books, but I mean, again, he’s the 1/10 of 1%. That’s great. If your books are that good and you can churn out three of them a year for 40 years, then, you know, God bless you. But.
Nick Thacker [00:45:14]:
Well, but to be fair, he’s also had a lot of PR behind him. He’s had a lot of marketing behind him. You know, he’s.
Jason Jones [00:45:19]:
Yeah. Books have been opted into films. Yeah. I mean, it’s.
Nick Thacker [00:45:22]:
Yeah, he’s not standing solely on the quality of his writing. He’s a great writer, don’t get me wrong. But there are unlimited great writers, you know, and so it’s. It’s not just that. He’s also had plenty of marketing and PR behind it, of course.
Jason Jones [00:45:34]:
Yeah. Well, one of his first movies, if not his first movie, what was his first book? Was it Caring? Was that.
Nick Thacker [00:45:38]:
His first book I think he sold was Carrie.
Jason Jones [00:45:42]:
Right. Which became A film which launched him, I guess. Right. I mean, you have to believe. But then, you know, at that time too, there weren’t a million books being self published every year. You know, there’s a heck of a lot less competition in the marketplace for Stephen King when he became Stephen King. So, yeah, it’s just, and I, and I hate to say that to anybody and this kind person on your, your comments here, I don’t mean that to sound as harsh as it probably sounds, but I mean, it’s just too many other people out there in the marketplace of conversation that are engaging and relating to people and, and building an audience that you’re just not going to really be able to break through that if you don’t participate. You may sell several hundred books to your local folks and your friends and your, you know, and you may find your little niche, community, but even then, you can’t be invisible.
Jason Jones [00:46:25]:
You gotta have, you gotta find community. It’s like anything else in life. You gotta have community.
Nick Thacker [00:46:29]:
So, no, it’s tough love. And, but it really is love. Like it’s not beneficial to an author for me to tell them, hey, if you just write really, really well, it’s just gonna blow up and you’re gonna make a million dollars. Because that’s just not true. And of course there’s the exception that proves the rule. The random moonshot that happened to blow up, you know, the Mark Watney, that’s Mark Watney’s the character, the Andy Weir, you know, who writes the Martian on a blog post. And, but even then there was some stuff, there was some marketing juice behind it. Maybe you didn’t do PR necessarily, but there was something behind it.
Nick Thacker [00:46:56]:
The point is, any author who says, I just want to write for myself, that’s fine. You’re allowed to do. No one’s going to take that from you. Right? But the moment you say, I believe I can be an author and people will read me that, what you’re saying is I’m going to become an entrepreneur and I’m going to sell this book to people. I’m sorry, that’s just, that’s the truth of it. It might just be one person, because you’re not a very good entrepreneur. But the point is, that’s what, you’re not just an author anymore. Writing for yourself.
Nick Thacker [00:47:22]:
You don’t get to have both. Right? And so that’s, that’s just the way it is. I, I hate the fact that I got, you know, hey, I just finished this 80,000 word novel, now I got to go Write emails about it and send it to my list. But that’s just what I have to do if I expect to have a career doing this, continue to have a career doing this. And I always remind people, you know, look, you talk about advertising and all that stuff. Coca Cola is a pretty well known brand. Pepsi is a pretty well known brand. And they’re both spending like billions of dollars a year on advertising.
Nick Thacker [00:47:49]:
So you would think at some point you can stop doing it, you can stop advertising and paying all this money and doing the marketing and all that, but you don’t, you can’t, or you’re just gonna go away. And that’s, you know, and that’s fine too, if that’s what you want. But anyway, yeah, I, I love it. I love talking marketing. Obviously we could, we can go down the rabbit hole and all that as well, but we are getting close to the end here, so we kind of want to wrap things up a little bit. But I did. Maybe one more question. Maybe it’s a softball, maybe it’s curveball, I don’t know, we’ll see.
Nick Thacker [00:48:19]:
But for the indie author, for anyone listening and, and you’re talking PR and all this stuff, you got this firm, you can, all this advanced stuff that you’re doing. We’ve never, let’s say we’ve never heard of PR before. What’s the first easiest step that they could take? Like this week, right now? What’s the first thing that would be actually helpful to their PR efforts? I hope that question made sense but kind of bumbled over. What would be the first step for an author who’s never considered any of this before?
Jason Jones [00:48:51]:
That’s a, that’s a big question.
Nick Thacker [00:48:53]:
There’s maybe it’s just pay you a.
Jason Jones [00:48:55]:
Lot of money and have you been sure that’s the answer right? Go to Jonesliterary.com and yeah, no, I think before you do anything else, I think you have to be able to tell me what’s your book about? And I need it in 30 seconds. A classic elevator speech. You gotta really distill it down. You mentioned whiskey. I love whiskey. Gotta distill it down. And you don’t have people, especially nowadays. People’s attention spans are absolutely microscopic.
Jason Jones [00:49:26]:
I mean, if you can’t hook me in 15, 20 seconds, then you’re done. I mean, as far as marketing npr, you’re not going to get anywhere because you’re not going to get enough of anyone’s time to give them a six minute spiel on why your book is, you know, I think you really got to drill down and once you know that the real essence of what your book is about and why it matters to people, what’s different about it, you know, and then I can build from there and I can reach out to media outlets. I can do some marketing. I can. You know. You can. But without that, you really. You’re nowhere, you know, you’re just absolutely nowhere.
Nick Thacker [00:50:03]:
And.
Jason Jones [00:50:03]:
And so people say, well, I did that. I wrote the back cover copy or inside flap copy, or I’ve got, you know, that’s. That’s too much. I mean, you really, really got to distill it down. And I would, I would. I have. I have challenged some of my authors in the past to, to see if they can give me that in 30 words or less, you know.
Nick Thacker [00:50:24]:
Oh, I love that.
Jason Jones [00:50:26]:
Which doesn’t feel like it’s not a lot. Yeah, but 30 words or less, what. What is this book? You know, and so that’s where you start.
Nick Thacker [00:50:37]:
I love that. Because that’s something we can do. Even if we’re not going to engage in PR through, you know, buying a package and, you know, whatever. We can’t do that. There’s still immense value in understanding the core high concept of what our book is. I used to tell authors, and I still do this myself, you know, I use two movies, blank meets blank. And I say movies specifically because there’s fewer of them than books. And so there’s a benefit to, you know, there’s more consolidation there.
Nick Thacker [00:51:08]:
So if it’s. It’s something people have heard of usually, rather than if, you know, if it’s this obscure book meets this obscure book, people see that ad or whatever it is that you’re the PR and they’re like, I don’t know any of those books. I don’t care. You know. But if I say National Treasure meets Indiana Jones, you immediately get an idea of what I write. You know, this kind of swashbuckling, pulpy action adventure fiction, you know, it’s not going to be about cryptocurrency or cyberpunk. It’s so. It has a feel to it.
Nick Thacker [00:51:32]:
So that’s a good way to do that. I mean, in my opinion, I think that would fit your. Your 30 words or less.
Jason Jones [00:51:40]:
Rule.
Nick Thacker [00:51:40]:
Right. Would that. That kind of work if it’s like a cell. A cell line?
Jason Jones [00:51:44]:
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. Um, and I, I think.
Nick Thacker [00:51:51]:
It’S almost.
Jason Jones [00:51:51]:
Like you’re in therapy. You know, you’re. You’re. Your therapist may ask you what’s Tell me your story. What’s wrong? You know, and you go into the six second story about your divorce and your parents were abusive or whatever. You, you know, and then at the end of the conversation, she really. Or he really just. So it sounds like it’s about pain, right? It sounds like it’s about, you know, it sounds like you’re, sounds like you’re.
Jason Jones [00:52:12]:
This, let’s get down to the bottom of the bear. What is it really, really about? And, and so you just got to figure out, you know, what is your book about? Who is it? Because then you know who it’s for, you know, then you know who to reach out to is having conversations about that topic. You just, and just when you think you got it this out distilled down enough, do it again, you know, so therapy.
Nick Thacker [00:52:36]:
She says, well, what’s going on? And I tell her and then she goes, well, it’s been an hour, so next time. I’ve been told the same story for like, you know, six weeks now. But no, I love that. Keep distilling it down. Make it as simple as possible. Again, people don’t have a long attention span. And you know, when you’re, when you’re going through, especially with PR and marketing activities, the people you’re sending this stuff to, they don’t have a lot of, they’re looking through, you know, that one sentence in their subject line to decide to even open the email or not. Yep, I love that.
Nick Thacker [00:53:06]:
That’s, that’s very helpful. That’s good advice. Where can we find out more about you, about the, the agency, local PR toolkit, whatever people might be interested in?
Jason Jones [00:53:14]:
Yeah, man, thanks for asking. Jonesliterary.com is our website. Everything is there. I mean, all of our services are there. You see bios on our team, you know, see all the authors and organizations, ministries, non profits we work with. It’s all there. So, yep, Jonesliterary.com is where you go.
Nick Thacker [00:53:33]:
That’s great, man. Well, this has been, at least for me, this has been an eye opening, very, very helpful conversation. I knew nothing about pr. I, I was feeling like, okay, there’s probably some overlap here with marketing and all that. So it’s reassuring to know that I’m on the right track with some of this stuff. But I, this is really helpful. I’m gonna have to go check out. You saw it up there, guys.
Nick Thacker [00:53:52]:
Jones literary.com, please do check it out. If you’re, if you’re watching and want to know more about the PR stuff, I’m sure this is just a little taste of what Jason’s able to get into, you know, to go reach out to him one on one and all that. And I’m excited to hear more about that, too. But we’ve reached the end of this call today, so we’re going to let the little outro thing play. So stick around and we’ll see you next week, same time, same place. Thanks for being with us.
Jason Jones [00:54:17]:
Thanks, Nick, for having me.
Nick Thacker [00:54:18]:
Absolutely.
Kevin Tumlinson [00:54:21]:
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