Episode Summary
Rachel Rener, writer of modern romantasy and voice Tana the tiefling on the DnD podcast, Of Dice and Friends chats with Mark about finding your superfans and creating a community as an author and creator.
Episode Notes
Rachel Rener isn’t just a writer of modern romantasy books featuring powerful-yet-flawed heroines, unforgettable magic systems, and smoldering romance. She also finds the time to voice Tana the tiefling on the DnD podcast, Of Dice and Friends, or building community with fantasy lovers like herself.
Join us as Mark chats with Rachel about finding your superfans and creating a community as an author and creator.
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Transcript
Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:01]:
You just tuned into the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs, and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from d two d and their industry influencing guests. You’re listening to Self Publishing Insiders with Draft2Digital.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:00:25]:
Welcome to self I know. Isn’t that music awesome? I’m glad you were bopping to it, Rachel. Welcome to self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. My name is Mark Leslie Lefebvre. I’m the, director of, what what am I? The director of business development at Draft2Digital, and I have with me international sensation author, Rachel Rener. Rachel, welcome.
Rachel Rener [00:00:47]:
Man, Mark, you can introduce me anywhere and everywhere I go.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:00:50]:
Well, international because we were just hanging out in Toronto, and now you’re in The States. So and and and I’m pretty sure you’ve sold in, you know, like, thirty, sixty, 80 countries around the world by now?
Rachel Rener [00:01:01]:
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I most excited to see someone bought my book in Antarctica. So that was cool.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:07]:
So cool. That is so cool. So we’re gonna be talking about that because you do a lot of direct selling on your website. You’re obviously selling through retailers as well. But you just launched, launched just just closed hours ago, maybe twelve hours ago, something like that, a Kickstarter. Can you tell us a little bit about this Kickstarter that you just ran?
Rachel Rener [00:01:28]:
Yeah. It was it was wild. You know, a year and a half ago, we we ran a Kickstarter for this pink monstrosity, which can also double as a bludgeoning weapon. It’s
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:38]:
Oh my god. That that’s a spider killer. Oh, and it comes in a little box too.
Rachel Rener [00:01:42]:
I know. It’s true. Yeah. It it’s four books of the gilded blood series. The gilded blood series at that time had been out for, like, around a year or so. And so at the time, you know, we had set a publishing goal of 15, like, one five thousand, and ultimately funded at 50,000, and then it just kinda kept steamrolling from there. So when we came out with the prequel, earlier this year, we we knew we had to make a special edition for that too. But we couldn’t make it pink because it’s very it’s very dark.
Rachel Rener [00:02:19]:
You know, it’s dark and, it it’s told from the male point of view, so pink wouldn’t work. So then we had to make the pink book temporarily black.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:27]:
Oh my god.
Rachel Rener [00:02:28]:
And I I figured it would do well. Right? I mean Yeah. Yeah. Not even speaking from a place of boasting, just looking at the numbers. We had a lot of followers. Gilded blood has grown since I did the pink one. We put a lot of effort and work into it, but, gosh, it just blew my expectations out of the water. I’m so I’m so surprised.
Rachel Rener [00:02:50]:
I’m so grateful. And I’m I’m still kinda dealing with the aftermath of, like, oh my gosh. That just happened.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:58]:
So, could you hold up that first pink book again? Because there was a comment that I just wanna pop up from Nigel. That’s why you’re ready. You know, hold it up as close to the camera as you can. And the comment is, whoops, of course, the way comments, work here, that isn’t a book. That’s freight. That is freight. How heavy is that book?
Rachel Rener [00:03:18]:
This is 4.1 pounds.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:20]:
Oh, wow. I thought it would be heavier than it. That is absolutely amazing. So we’re gonna pop up. Tell us a little bit about the Kickstarter as well. So I’m gonna pop up some of the assets related to the Kickstarter you just ran. If you can just kinda say, okay. So you had this black version of the book, but then, what what were people gonna get? And how
Rachel Rener [00:03:36]:
did you do that? So we had multiple tiers. Right? When you do a Kickstarter, it’s kind of important that you reach people who are, like, vaguely interested, or maybe very interested but don’t have the funds right now. So you usually have, like, a smaller tier. In our case, we did, an art pack, where we had, like, some really beautiful foiled bookmarks, a foiled, postcards. And then we had, like, some temporary tattoos because tattoo runes and blood types make up the magic system. So we had that. And then, you know, the second tier is just getting the prequel book, which a lot of people opted for because they already had the pink book and,
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:16]:
you know,
Rachel Rener [00:04:17]:
pink and black look lovely together. And then we had, you know, a third tier, which was both books plus this really beautiful slip
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:26]:
Oh my goodness. Wow. That that I could I could get into that box. It’s so big.
Rachel Rener [00:04:30]:
Right. Right. Well, it has to hold both of these chunksters. Right?
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:04:34]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:04:35]:
Then we had a fourth tier that had the art pack and the book bundle, and then we had a fifth tier, which I I wasn’t sure if if it would sell. I mean, I had it was quite expensive. It was, like, $300. It was that plus a whole bunch of exclusive goodies you could only get as part of that ultimate tier. So that’s how we did it with those five tiers. And then as we went on and we started unlocking things, we offered, you know, like, additional, goodies and bonus add ons and such.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:03]:
Wow. And and I just, I mean, you were holding, I think, in the video from your Kickstarter, as you’re holding the book, you can see this, what do you call that, style? The was it the rainbow?
Rachel Rener [00:05:13]:
It’s it’s holographic foil sprayed edge or holographic foil edges.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:17]:
Wow. Absolutely gorgeous. I ordered one, and I was so excited because you will be pretty much ship shipping it anywhere in the world. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:05:26]:
Yeah. We do. And, you know, I always tell authors who are about to to launch on Kickstarter that we as human beings, you know, it hurts us to to set, shipping rates is very expensive. So the mistake I made in my very first Kickstarter, three Kickstarters ago, was not charging enough for shipping. I thought, no one is gonna wanna buy this if I if I charge what it actually costs. And so I I I charge too little, and, boy, did that bite me in the butt when it came time to actually ship those books. So we spent a lot of time plugging in the numbers to USPS, plugging in the numbers to UPS, using our pirate ship account. You know, in Canada, I think you would use a stallion ship.
Rachel Rener [00:06:11]:
Right? Really making sure that we had that shipping down pat and charging people exactly what it would cost. And and people understand. When they go on Kickstarter, they understand, especially when you’re mailing, you know, six pounds of books.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:25]:
It’s Yeah. It’s
Rachel Rener [00:06:26]:
not gonna be cheap to go to Australia, and and people have been so understanding and so supportive of that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:32]:
Wow. Yeah. Okay. So this Kickstarter, now I saw that you had this super magnificent stretch goal. You have so many stretch goals. You cleared the stretch goal of 225,000. What did you end up landing at as it finished?
Rachel Rener [00:06:45]:
230 US dollars, which I guess is over 300,000 Canadians. So I’m gonna go with that number because it’s I
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:54]:
like that. Yeah. In Canada,
Rachel Rener [00:06:55]:
it’s almost more impressive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beth is asking if you have a bloody lip. Should I tell her about the Yeah. Should I tell her about the other guy and how bad he looks? He’s in the hospital right now.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:07]:
Him. Yeah. You should see how he looks. No. Beth, you know what? I should never have the shower about half an hour before the call because I was shaving, and and I just cut my lip open in two places, just below my lip. And so I just normally, it stops bleeding. But, you know, that’s, that’s live that’s live streaming for you. So thanks, thanks, Beth.
Rachel Rener [00:07:29]:
The perils of being a man. I I do think that you should stick with, boy, you should see the other guy.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:35]:
Oh oh, yeah. And and Nigel says he just got whacked by one of those books.
Rachel Rener [00:07:38]:
I mean funny stuff. Nigel, you don’t know, but I’ve got such a temper. It it transfers through time, space, and and computer screens.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:46]:
Well, we were on a panel at Toronto indie author con, this past weekend, and I did say something out of turn, and you just backhanded me and said enough of that. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:07:54]:
Hey. I thought we weren’t gonna tell them about that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:58]:
So let’s let’s talk a little about so you said this, two or three Kickstarters ago, and you’ve made some errors. So you didn’t, I mean, you didn’t start off making $230,000 in the Kickstarter. How did you work your way through that and and, you know, the learnings along the way?
Rachel Rener [00:08:14]:
Yeah. I, so several years ago, I, I wanted to just kinda, like, learn the ropes. So I I sort of did what you’re not supposed to do. But knowing it, right, I didn’t tell people about it beforehand. I didn’t have a team to help me. It was just me. I was back I wouldn’t say a baby author, but I was still really trying to find my footing and, wasn’t really making a lot of money. So, we’ll say I was an aspiring successful author.
Rachel Rener [00:08:43]:
And so, like, it was the day of I remember it was my birthday. It was October 13, and I said, happy birthday. Here’s a special edition. And so, like I said, I I didn’t do as much research on the shipping as I should have. I didn’t have a prelaunch page to gain a lot of followers. I just sort of said, surprise. It’s live. And, you know, we made a few thousand dollars.
Rachel Rener [00:09:03]:
And, back then, I was using IngramSpark as my, printer. And, nothing against IngramSpark. They’re super convenient to use. I certainly recommend them to authors who are starting out in the special edition or hardcover sphere. You know, it’s quite expensive. I didn’t charge enough because the the book was, like, this big. It was colorized on the inside, which for Ingram Park Spark at the time, was really expensive. And I I think I broke even when all was said and done.
Rachel Rener [00:09:33]:
And that’s not the point of a kick starter. Right? You definitely wanna
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:09:35]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:09:36]:
Have a little bit of a margin to work with. And then I was telling you the second time, I I I really wanted to do it right. So I I did a lot of advertising, and spreading the word beforehand. I had that pre launch page up for about a month, I want to say. We had gotten around four fifty followers, which is great. I usually tell authors, like, if you can get around two fifty or 3,250 or 300 followers before your project launches, you’ll probably hit your 10 to $15,000 funding goal if you’re if you’re looking to get one of those 500 print minimum runs. Right. Right.
Rachel Rener [00:10:14]:
So we did great. You know? It was awesome. The surprising thing about that one is so at the time, I didn’t have a I didn’t have a proof. Right? It was all concept art. We’d had the cover designed. You know, my artist plugged it into like a three d mock up. And so, we were just showing people graphics.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:33]:
Right.
Rachel Rener [00:10:34]:
And so, you know, it did well. Like I said, we we funded all the 50,000, but it was when we got the proof in the mail. And I started showing people, you know, the the holographic foil, and it’s and it’s, you know
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:48]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:10:49]:
Got a colorized map on the inside and that. That’s when it went nuts. And so we had already made our order. We we I think we’re gonna get, like, 750 books, but then it went, like, baby viral. And I don’t mean viral, like, a million people saw it. I mean like a few hundred thousand people saw it. And then next thing I knew, we had like 800 orders in. My PayPal account was being frozen because we had, like unexpected exponential growth.
Rachel Rener [00:11:21]:
It was kind of a nightmare, actually, because we didn’t expect it. So I think we ended up getting 200 over $200,000 after that before the books had even arrived to port. So we were really we were really scrambling.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:36]:
Wow. That is amazing. That is absolutely amazing. So many questions. So you you I just wanna dig into this first. Now you talk about we.
Rachel Rener [00:11:48]:
I see so many questions in the chat.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:49]:
I know. I’ve I’ve I’ve got them queued up. I’ve got I’ve got some queued up that I’m gonna be asking, but I get to ask them first.
Rachel Rener [00:11:55]:
You do. You do.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:56]:
I’m the one who cut myself just before this. I gotta treat myself.
Rachel Rener [00:11:59]:
You’ve sacrificed enough for this interview. You get to ask. You are
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:04]:
you are an independent author and independent spirit, you know, going your own way, doing your own thing, breaking barriers, doing all kinds of things. But you say keep saying we, so you must have a team then.
Rachel Rener [00:12:15]:
Right? You know, it’s like it’s this habit I have. I do have a team. You know? But honestly, I guess when I’m talking about Kickstarter, I mean, that was that was that was a lot of me going into that. I I do tell people when you’re doing the Kickstarter, don’t expect to get any books written during that time. So at the time when I was doing the the big pink book, as it’s called, it really was just me. I had a project manager, but that didn’t go very well and he didn’t really do much. So it was just me. Now I do have a team of there’s, five of us, and it’s it’s it’s been so wonderful having them for support.
Rachel Rener [00:12:54]:
If anything, they just keep me sane when I’m like, you know? Yeah. But, yeah. Yeah. I I am very fortunate enough that now I I do have a a team of of people who who help support me when I’m losing my mind. It’s been great.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:07]:
That is fantastic. No. I have to go back, in the conversation when you talked about I was an aspiring successful author. So a few people including Nigel said, must remember that. That’s a it’s a great one. And I like to say that to authors. I actually had this last weekend when I did my panel on, or my talk on author branding, I said, you’re not a wannabe writer. You’re not a beginning writer.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:28]:
You’re not a newbie writer. You are a future best selling author. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:13:31]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:35]:
So What so what other advice would you give, in in that vein to, authors who are beginning and they’re going, oh, wow. Look at this. Like, you know, you’ve got the team, you’ve got the sales, you’ve got the the Kickstarters. What would you say to somebody that, you know, maybe the younger Rachel who who’s just getting started?
Rachel Rener [00:13:51]:
Yeah. You know, you you know in your heart when it’s time to to start growing. And I would tell people, it’s it’s sort of a it’s it’s a Goldilocks thing. Right? You can’t start hiring people too quickly. It might feel good to say like, oh, I’ve got this team behind me, but you need that money. You need to kinda set up a nest egg. You need to at that point, you just need to be picking and choosing Right. What can I pick up right now without stretching myself too thin? And and, Mark, you and I talked about this so much at the trin Toronto indie author con conference which is your first and foremost goal needs to be writing books.
Rachel Rener [00:14:29]:
And and I think a lot of newer authors get maybe frustrated hearing that. Like, well, yeah. I know you keep saying that, but how else am I gonna sell them? The best way to sell your books is to write more books. Right? We talked about we really drove that in. But on the flip side, when it is time to hire your team, don’t drag your feet. I dragged my feet for a little little too long. And, and and the growth curve, you know, I think I always kind of expected it to, like, sort of do this, you know? What I didn’t realize is that it kind of does like this.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:09]:
Right.
Rachel Rener [00:15:09]:
And once you’re like here
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:12]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:15:13]:
Once you’re just at the curve of that hockey stick, that’s when it start you know, that’s when you need to say, alright. It’s going to be a little scary, but I need to start spending some money to get ready for this growth. Because once you do that, I mean, unless something goes horribly wrong and you use like a racial slur, it’s going to continue this way because success and momentum begets more success and momentum. I waited a little too long and, worked quite a number of sixteen hour days before I finally figured it out. Like, I need help.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:44]:
Wow. Amazing. And I love the fact that you use hockey stick, not just because you’re in Toronto, you know, while while the
Rachel Rener [00:15:51]:
Maple Leafs are
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:51]:
creative in the playoffs, but okay. And and use the Canadian term, hockey stick. But but that is a good that is a good curve to be on. But that came from a lot of hard work and a lot of, patient. Like I say, patience, practice, and persistence. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:16:04]:
Yeah. For, you know, for what it’s worth, I had written five books before, the first book of the Gilded Blood series. And I I really actually was ready to throw in the towel. It had been about three years. The first two years, I was negative income. I was so lucky to be married to somebody who was very supportive, like, not just in terms of, you know, finances and and being willing to shoulder that burden, but just emotionally supportive and saying keep going. And he he comes from business. Right? So he was able to be very logical and say, look.
Rachel Rener [00:16:39]:
Most businesses need three to five years to start thriving. So he he was able to speak to me and say, stop looking at it as a creative. Stop looking at it as a storyteller. Look at it as a business. You are creating a business right now. You need more time. Started really propelling things. The ebook, you know, I had changed my distribution method and that really worked.
Rachel Rener [00:17:05]:
And then the special edition is what brought my career to a new level. So I was, like, right there on the cusp of saying I’m not meant to do this. And now, you know, I’m going to conventions with you as a so called expert, and we’re talking to people about how to get to where we are, it’s kind of surreal, right? I’m so
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:17:23]:
glad it’s going. I’m glad you mentioned because I’ve seen some comments from people who just published a book this week, and I know it’s congratulations. It’s awesome. It’s so amazing. Love the fact that you can do that. But it’s not that you publish your book and suddenly you’re an international sensation. It can happen. But it’s both
Rachel Rener [00:17:41]:
in a while. Yeah. I mean Every once in a while, you see it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:17:44]:
Yeah. For you, it was five years. For me, if I actually counted, it was probably about fifteen years before I started earning enough money, that I didn’t need to have a full time job. So and and some people, it it can take a lot longer. So that patience is important. Alright. Getting back to some questions based on earlier content is Alyssa, who is a designer at at Draft2Digital, makes all the things look look the awesomeness Oh, wonderful. Alyssa said, so okay.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:18:12]:
So you’d mentioned, IngramSpark, you’d use. But so who do you use now for printing? Because they obviously don’t do all that fancy stuff
Rachel Rener [00:18:20]:
that you have. No. No. No. They’re and, again, we talked about this at the Toronto, Indie Author Conference, which is, like, the pros and cons of using print on demand. Print on demand would be BookVault, forty eight hour books, IngramSpark, versus, like, a mass traditional printer. So I now use a mass printer. They’re RR Donnelley.
Rachel Rener [00:18:37]:
They’re internationally renowned. They’re wonderful. A couple caveats there. You have to have at least a 500 book minimum. So that’s where crowdfunding comes in. In order to to get those 500 books, you usually need around $15,000 more or less. So when you make the funding, great. Right? The other caveat is that even though they are based here in The States, and I I think they may also be in Canada.
Rachel Rener [00:19:08]:
I’m not sure. They print in China. Even so called domestic printers, they all print overseas. Now the good news is that tariffs for now let’s all please take a moment. Like, literally, I need you to knock on wood for me. For now, we are locked in here in The States at a seven. Thank you. Thank you, Mark.
Rachel Rener [00:19:28]:
7.5% tariff. That could change, and I I completely understand why some people would not want to take that risk right now in the kind of world that we’re living in. But they, for me, have been wonderful. I have a dedicated account manager, and I I I love what we’ve created with them.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:46]:
Oh, fantastic. Well, thank you for, thank you for that. And R. O’Donnell is one of those printers that big publishers use. I I recognize the name from being in the industry.
Rachel Rener [00:19:54]:
Exactly. Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:56]:
But, again, it’s not like print on demand one offs. You you have to, you know, dedicate, that you know. And, again, what I recommend is that’s the beauty of print on demand and and the world we live in is, we all believe our books are gonna sell billions of copies, but, that’s how you can get stuck with 500 copies in your basement, right right right right right
Rachel Rener [00:20:15]:
now. No. It it took me, about three and a half, four years, I would say, to to make the leap. I’m in a place now where I will never go back to print on demand, but but I had to get there. Right? And the worst thing you could possibly do is is have these big, like, eyes that are bigger than your wallet, let’s say. Yeah. And you get your 500 or seven fifty or a thousand books, and that’s quite a lot of money. It’s also quite a lot of palettes.
Rachel Rener [00:20:42]:
A book this size.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:20:45]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:20:45]:
You can get 250 of them on a pallet at most. Yeah. If you order a thousand of them, that’s four palettes. Where are you gonna put that? Where are you gonna move that? Those palettes are easily a thousand pounds. So not only that, but if you order 500, seven 50, a thousand books or more, what are you gonna do if you don’t sell them all? So that’s why, you know, I think a really good way to make the leap between print on demand and mass printing is to do crowdfunding, or at the very least host a pre order on your site, to make sure that you have the the demand before you invest in that supply because they will not take those books back. That’s up to you.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:21:27]:
Yeah. No. No. For sure. I mean, I, my wife was, she’s handy around the house, so she builds things. And she put together a room for me that’s just my storage room, shelving on the wall, the scale so I can weigh things before I go ship them with the, you know, online labels and stuff like that. And and, again, because it had happened when I and this was for a Kickstarter, but when I had to have a 50, you know, hardcover shipped to the house, you know, and and we were working we were working in the garage when they showed up, and and the UPS guy comes, And he just keeps on and and Liz is like, where are we gonna put all these? I’m like, well, most of them are going.
Rachel Rener [00:22:03]:
Not to mention boxes. People do not think about this. So just really, really quick anecdotal story. I mentioned I had a project manager. That turned into a nightmare. So somewhere in between making $50,000 getting an additional $200,000 or $225,000 whatever it was.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:22:21]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:22:21]:
I had to fire him. Like, I had to. There there was no other way. And I had books en route from China. Pallets and pallets of them. Right? I I don’t remember exactly how many books we got. I wanna say it was 1,500. It might have been 2,000 total.
Rachel Rener [00:22:38]:
But, you know, that’s five, six pallets. So, I had to scramble to find the space to put them to find storage space, but then I had to go to Uline and start prepping for all of the the boxes that we would ship. Boxes too. You get 250 of them. They start coming on pallets. Yeah. They take up a lot of room even when they’re flat. I mean, they just come in these, like, giant columns.
Rachel Rener [00:23:02]:
It’s you have to be very space conscientious when you move into, mass printing. I have a warehouse now. I mean, like, I have a literal warehouse with, like, storage racks and forklifts. Yeah. It I I I think I said when you and I were on a I don’t remember if you were in there for if I was doing it by myself, but I said I absolutely hate authors. I hate them. I hate all of you who do millions of ebook sales. I hate you so much.
Rachel Rener [00:23:32]:
You are so much smarter than me because you make so much money doing, of course, nothing. You know what I mean. You had to write the book.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:39]:
No. But the digital stuff moves, but you don’t have to get through the cut. Screen.
Rachel Rener [00:23:43]:
I’m over here with forklifts and pallet jacks and teams and warehouses, and and, like, you’re so much smarter than me. Do ebooks. Don’t do what I’m doing.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:53]:
Yeah. And and I see I think I saw a comment from somebody, and this is, from Ann Long. Book said, took me eight years to sell a thousand units on Amazon. So at all. So yeah. Look at that beautiful, you know, three d image there. So Yeah. Okay.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:24:06]:
So there’s a question, from Beth that I think is related to that. Because before you can get to the place where you have warehouses and pallets and and the team and stuff like that, Beth asks, Rachel, what’s something that, that you use to invite Raiders to to become fans? Because it’s a lot of those super fans and those fans that were the people who jumped on and followed the Kickstarter and said, oh my god. I have to have the the new box, all the things. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:24:30]:
Yeah. This is this is so subjective, and what worked for me will absolutely not work for some other authors. But for me, personally, I just had to rely on my sparkling wit and personality because there there was a point when I started, I never wanted to be famous. I’m not famous. I’m not saying I am. But I’m saying when I went in, I wanted to put the full spotlight on my books. You know, my Facebook page was the lightning conjurer series. Right? I was just the faceless person in the back.
Rachel Rener [00:24:59]:
I would know her. And, again, it was my husband. God, I really need to, like, make him a nice dinner or something after this after this interview. My husband said, Rachel, you’re smart. You’re funny. He’s biased. Go put your face
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:25:12]:
kinda likes you a little. Right? Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:25:14]:
Right? Yeah. Go put your face out there. And, you know, when I came out from behind the shadows and I started just being me and interacting with my fans and being Rachel Renner versus just my books, that’s what worked really well for me. I have gone viral a couple of times, being my snarky inappropriate self, climbing into filing cabinets when a reviewer said it was impossible for a full grown woman to fit in one. Of course, I did. I broke it, but I did it. A reader asked me for a refund on their 3.99 Amazon book, so I sent it to them in pennies, fair in
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:25:52]:
Okay. Fair enough. Alright.
Rachel Rener [00:25:53]:
Yeah. So so I have gotten a bit my readers have turned into fans through my sheer idiocy and just liking me as a person. My reader group, I I I make myself available to my readers. That does not work for everybody. But it worked for me.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:13]:
And it sounds like that authenticity. You you were not putting on airs. You were you were more naturally being yourself. Fortunately, you’re Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:26:20]:
You know, you
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:21]:
know, not a jerk. So that helps.
Rachel Rener [00:26:23]:
And I I I think I think you you said it so much clearer than me. I am, depending on who you talk to, funny and snarky and in some ways personable. For other authors, though, it’s just being authentic, I think, and just being true to yourself, to your readers, to your books. People really resonate with that, I think.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:44]:
Awesome. Thank you for that. Okay, so this is this is for the fans, this question from, Jay Kumis. Will we get a new Amethyst in Alchemy this year, a sequel, or a new standalone? Any hints for the fans?
Rachel Rener [00:26:56]:
I really, really, really want to. Now that, gilded blood and silver blood are taking will theoretically take up less of my time. They’re my spoiled brat, baby. They’re like the youngest child, and they’re just taking up all my attention. I do hope to be working on that. Yeah. Absolutely, Jessica. Awesome.
Rachel Rener [00:27:15]:
Thanks for asking.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:18]:
This is just a comment related to something we mentioned earlier. I didn’t wanna miss it, but Leila had mentioned that the more books I put out, the better all of the books did. But definitely, they’d all come together after one book right away. Absolutely. Did it yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:27:32]:
You’ve got multiple books now where if you find a superfan, they don’t just have one or two books to buy. They go buy all however many books you’ve written. Your writing gets better. Your craft gets better. Your marketing gets better. You know? Like, the more books you write, the stronger everything becomes. You’re putting more bricks in the foundation foundation of the house that you’re trying to build.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:53]:
Yeah. Now this is a question from from Beth I wanna mention. So we were just talking about the warehouses, and Beth says, I don’t wanna do the shipping myself. Are there options of doing big projects like Kickstarter without having to store and ship them? And that’s something that’s very easy for all of us to do. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:28:08]:
Yeah. Of course. There are and I again, I just really encourage you to do your research. There are, people out there who will help you run your projects. Inference, actually, they’re wonderful. The owner, Dana, she’s absolutely remarkable. She will help you get special edition books, things like that. As far as, like, the storing and shipping, there are people out there who will help you Just make sure you’re doing your research.
Rachel Rener [00:28:37]:
Don’t just take their word for it. Go talk to other authors that they’ve worked with. In my case, more and more authors were speaking about some of the issues that I had with that particular project manager. And it turns out I was not a one off. And I’m not selling myself because we’re not doing it yet. But I will say we are actually talking about because we have the warehouse, because we have the team, because we have the space, we are actually talking about helping other authors potentially fulfill their Kickstarters where they would send their books to us. We would store them for a small fee and help them ship them. So, you know, you can find that.
Rachel Rener [00:29:12]:
Just go into, like, different author groups. Kickstarter for authors, that, it’s run by a woman named, Anthea Sharp. Yeah. That’s a great resource to look at.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:24]:
Oh, yeah. No. She’s amazing, and I’ve gotten a lot of great support, from that group as well. And and, again, she’s got a book Kickstarter for authors for those who prefer to read rather than do the online interaction in
Rachel Rener [00:29:36]:
the book. She’s she’s lovely.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely amazing. So, again, just some more comments. So, Beth had mentioned the business of writing is just so different from the craft. How did how did you make that transition then? Well, you just your husband’s a business. Right? But what did you say, sir?
Rachel Rener [00:29:54]:
I made it kicking and screaming. That’s how I
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:56]:
made that transition. Oh, you didn’t.
Rachel Rener [00:29:57]:
No. I mean it. I I hated it. I I dragged my feet on becoming an LLC. I dragged my feet on incorporating. I dragged my feet on getting a team. I dragged my feet on getting an account, and I dragged my feet on getting a bookkeeper. I dragged my feet on every part of it.
Rachel Rener [00:30:11]:
I actually think, and it breaks my heart. I think the reason why some of us haven’t read our favorite book yet is because that poor neurospicy ADHD author got so overwhelmed by the business side of things that they said forget it. I don’t wanna do it. It’s hard. It’s not easy. So I I did a kicking and screaming. I’m trying to embrace it now. I’ve become just naturally more business savvy.
Rachel Rener [00:30:36]:
You f up. You learn. You know what to do better next time. But, yeah, you you do it one ripped off Band Aid at a time. I have to incorporate. I’m making too much money. I can no longer do this as a as a person. I now have to do this as, you know, as an S corporation here in the state.
Rachel Rener [00:30:57]:
I mean, like, one ripped off Band Aid at a time.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:01]:
Wow, that is amazing. And I think that’s such an important element, particularly because, you know, as a beginning author who’s looking at all of these moving parts and all these pieces, you didn’t you didn’t just have that, you know Monday, you were a soul soul entrepreneur or solopreneur, and then Tuesday, you had a giant team in a warehouse. I mean, these were little steps along the way that you took. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:31:22]:
Yeah. And because I dragged my feet, I I was put in a very reactive place. And I’m not a reactive person. I try to be very proactive. But when you when you really resist the process and I think also too when you underestimate yourself, which is a form of imposter syndrome. Why right? Like, I kept thinking this is the pinnacle. It’s just gonna flatten out or maybe even go downhill from here. I was too afraid to make those steps because I thought this was the highest I would ever get.
Rachel Rener [00:31:52]:
And because I chronically underestimated myself, I kept getting caught off guard by the success that did that did come. So, you know, if you’re gonna hire a team, hire contractors. Right? You you pay them hourly. God forbid it doesn’t work out. You give them as much notice as you can, and then they’ll go find other contract work. Right? It’s not like you have to hire a full time employee right away. So baby steps.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:18]:
I like that. I like okay. So, we have some questions about things in your room, the visuals that people are seeing on the screen. I think as, Ronnie said, Rachel, what does your Sherlock shirt say? What does it say?
Rachel Rener [00:32:30]:
Sherlock Holmes, two twenty one b Baker Street, and then I think it says what does it say? Consulting detective London.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:38]:
Very good. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. And then I think there were some questions about maps.
Rachel Rener [00:32:42]:
Questions about, like, the maps?
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:44]:
Yeah. I think there was a comment about the color maps, like, wow, with this, energy, or the seriousness of the color maps in those books. I think Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:32:51]:
Like, there’s Yeah. I hear it. Yeah. Map in here. Actually, like, everything in this this is the original Full color. Yeah. Everything in here is sorry. I know I’m a little bleached out.
Rachel Rener [00:33:01]:
It’s gorgeous.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:02]:
That is beautiful. Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Color maps are great. People people really love colored maps. I have full page illustrations in here too. That this map right there that’s made out of Legos.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:12]:
Oh, the the map behind you, there’s this, KL. Alan says, yeah. Tell us about the map. Is it part of your world?
Rachel Rener [00:33:19]:
And you wait about that map. Right? And that’s just that’s I love traveling. Right? So it’s it it was made with a bunch of, like, little dots that snapped in, and then there are little, like, pins that you can put on there to say where you’ve been and where you’re going, which reminds me, I actually have to update that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:36]:
You have to add Toronto to that now.
Rachel Rener [00:33:37]:
I do. That was my first time in Toronto.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:40]:
Oh, wow. Cool.
Rachel Rener [00:33:41]:
Yeah. Cool.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:41]:
And we and we kept you in a hotel the whole time. In the library in the hotel. Yeah. So fair enough. Who is lovely? You didn’t get a chance to go up the CN Tower or any of those other Toronto things?
Rachel Rener [00:33:53]:
Well, I just have to come back, obviously.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:55]:
You you will have to come back. Have to come back. Yeah. Okay. But but then again, on the map, you can have the pins to where you’ve been, but then you also potentially have a different color for countries you’ve delivered to or sold books in.
Rachel Rener [00:34:05]:
Oh, yeah. Gosh. That would take a lot of time. Yeah. Well make a very good business decision, Mark, because I could probably do more with my time than that. And I have Yeah. I really need to learn to protect my time. That has been an ongoing thing.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:18]:
I do
Rachel Rener [00:34:18]:
really like the idea.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:19]:
But you you just get a superfan to do that, and and film it, and then they be become viral showing the video of of that. See? There you go.
Rachel Rener [00:34:27]:
See? The and this is why you’re director of business operations. That’s lovely idea. Thank you, Mark.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:32]:
Oh, anytime. Anytime. Just here to help out. Okay. So many comments. I’m trying to scroll through them.
Rachel Rener [00:34:37]:
I know. You all are wonderful. You’re making I see Lexi’s that poor neurospicy ADHD author got overwhelmed saying she feels called out. Yeah. Same.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:46]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:34:47]:
Same date. Same. I see you. I see you.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:53]:
Okay. So comment here from Beth that says I’m creating a whole ecosystem where readers can connect with me and be part of the community. I’m trying to create a Substack newsletter, Pinterest account, and currently inactive Instagram. Wow. I mean and that’s a lot of moving parts too. So let’s talk a little bit about the social media. Like, do you do all the socials, or do you pick ones that work better?
Rachel Rener [00:35:14]:
I know it sounds antiquated, but I’m actually most active on Facebook. Okay. I have, like, 22,000 people over on on my page there. There’s a really big ecosystem, to silly word, Beth, of readers over there, especially in my genre, which tends to skew a little bit romantic. So that’s been great. I have the best thing that I did for my career, social media wise was actually making a reader group. That was one of those things I put off for a while. But once I got a a PA and realized that I had superfans who would help me run it, and they are amazing.
Rachel Rener [00:35:51]:
Like, fans make the best workers and volunteers because they love you, you love them. It works out so well. But my reader group, I mean, they’re the ones who stormed the gates when the Kickstarter went live. They’re the ones who broke Kickstarter, in those first two minutes because they just ran. They all had alarm set. That’s where I interact with my fans the most. And we’re we we’re friends. You know? We’re we’re friends.
Rachel Rener [00:36:17]:
We’ve created a little family over there, and that’s been really important.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:20]:
I love that. I love that community aspect. Layla Rose says, I still swear by a community Discord server.
Rachel Rener [00:36:27]:
Do you
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:27]:
have anything like that? Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:36:29]:
I do have a Discord server. Mine is a little bit more quiet right now, but I am about to announce something that I can’t say just yet. I’m sorry. But I
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:37]:
do we can have the exclusive.
Rachel Rener [00:36:39]:
It’s it’s gonna actually come out in a Kickstarter update and on my newsletter. So if you guys wanna see it, you can sign up for my newsletter at rachelrenner.com/blog. Only one and in renner. Okay? I’m not like Jeremy. He’s super extra.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:51]:
Thank you. Rachel Brenner. Right? Did I get that right? Rachelrenner dot com slash blog?
Rachel Rener [00:36:57]:
Add forward /blog. You can sign up for my newsletter. That’s gonna go out later today. But I am gonna do something that I think is going to direct more people to my Discord. Leila, if you have any ideas for how to get, Discord more active, mine is still a little bit. Thanks, Mark. Mine’s still a little bit quiet over there, and I’ve been trying to come up with ideas for how to, like, nourish that a little bit. So always open to hearing how that works for other people and other authors.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:37:23]:
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. That is fantastic. Okay. So so you just, you just came from Toronto. You were traveling in the midst of a Kickstarter, and I saw one of your updates because I think just before you were about to go on stage, you hit a landmark or something like that. And Kickstarters take a lot of time.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:37:40]:
They take a lot of energy. It’s almost like a full time job
Rachel Rener [00:37:42]:
It is.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:37:43]:
On top of what you’re doing. It is. But you cradled in the middle of that. That must have been like, when we were out, the speakers were out for dinner or having lunch together and stuff like that, that must have been so distracting where you’re just like, I just wanna check. I just wanna go and check to see how things are doing.
Rachel Rener [00:38:01]:
I mean, the cool thing is that my readers cared as much about the Kickstarter as I do. I mean, I I honestly think they’re more emotionally invested than I was. In some in some cases, I was very invested. I knew that if something was going horribly wrong or blowing up, like, I would hear about it. You know? Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:20]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:38:20]:
So it it it actually was kind of nice to be able to just sit down, get sushi with you and Tao, not look at my phone. But, yeah, it was a little bit stressful when we hit 200,000, and I was, like, on a panel. And my phone in my pocket is going buzz buzz buzz, and I kinda, like, you know, did that. I went off fudge.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:39]:
Yeah. Is the house on fire back home? What’s going on?
Rachel Rener [00:38:43]:
Yeah. But, you know, they know you’re a human being. You’re not awake twenty four seven. People aren’t expect most people aren’t expecting immediate updates. So
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:52]:
Wow.
Rachel Rener [00:38:53]:
To what I could. I to what I could.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:56]:
Alright. So we’ve talked a lot about the business, but we haven’t really dug into, when we were on a panel together, you were talking about, we I think we’d mentioned comp authors, comp titles, and stuff like that. And then there’s a mistake that authors can make when they don’t recommend the right comp author, comp title. And you had a really good thing to say about that that as as we were sitting there, I’m thinking, oh, this would be great on self publishing and
Rachel Rener [00:39:19]:
What did I say? Tell me.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:21]:
It was related to an author who, if you’ve read this author, you’re gonna find a slightly different, style of was it Cassandra Clare?
Rachel Rener [00:39:30]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:33]:
And and that’s and that’s setting up reader expectation, which is really critical because you don’t want the wrong people to read your stuff. So, and and this is sort of a lead in to give us the elevator pitch. Who should be reading your awesome novels?
Rachel Rener [00:39:46]:
Yeah. It’s true. You know, I the the anecdote I was talking about was someone at a convention was telling me how much she just loves Cassandra Clare. And, just for whatever reason, people who love Cassandra Clare do not like, my Lightning Conjure series. And and, like, she was, like, really wanting that book. And I was like, no. You’re not going to like this book. And she was like, I didn’t catch that.
Rachel Rener [00:40:09]:
And and then she left a one star review. Anyway, that was really funny.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:13]:
But you tried. I mean, we were talking about, you know, selling books is great, but don’t sell to the wrong person. And you were like, you’re practically trying to,
Rachel Rener [00:40:19]:
you know, arm wrestle with her.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:21]:
Don’t buy this. Yeah. Which which, I mean, most of us are so excited just to have someone interested, but you’re like, no. You’re not gonna like it. Please don’t buy this book, which I think it it seems counterintuitive, but it was. It was better for this reader to not read that book. Right?
Rachel Rener [00:40:35]:
Yeah. And I think it’s why it’s it’s important for us to remember as authors, like, just because there’s another author out there who says, like, hey. Let’s do newsletter swaps or or let’s do Kickstarter update swaps. You don’t want to be swapping newsletters if you write steamy goat romance. Right? You don’t want to be swapping newsletters with somebody who does, like, high-techy military sci fi because if their readers, for whatever reason, pick up your book, it’s not. It’s clashing. Most of those people are not going to overlap. So you really want to find people in your genre who who can help support you and you can support them, and you wanna make sure that you’ve got relevant comps.
Rachel Rener [00:41:16]:
So if a reader comes up to you and says, you know yes. Thank you, Alyssa. I hope so. I look forward to it. You just really wanna make sure that you’re setting your readers up for success. And that’s why we could talk about this for hours. But, like, things like trigger warnings. Right? There are some authors out there who are like, I don’t want trigger warnings.
Rachel Rener [00:41:37]:
I don’t want, to spoil my plot. You know, trigger warnings are for are for snowflakes. Well, that’s how you get one star reviews, Steve.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:48]:
Yeah.
Rachel Rener [00:41:48]:
Right? Yeah. If somebody was had something terrible happen to them in their history and you have that same terrible thing in your book, guess who’s gonna really hate your book because they weren’t properly warned about it? And, you know, Steve has told me, well, those people won’t even pick up my book now, and I’ve lost sales. At least I could have gotten my $2.99 minus Amazon fees and payment fees and brought home my 97¢. It’s like, okay, Steve. You get your 97¢, but you’re you’re targeting the wrong people, and that’s gonna bite you in the butt.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:21]:
Very good point. And Lexi says the more your readers understand what they’re in for, easier it can be to find. Those fans, those superfans are gonna stick around, obviously. Cool. Alright. So, this is an important important comment or question is, did you mean goat or did you mean g o a t?
Rachel Rener [00:42:38]:
I meant goat. I meant, like, sheep.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:40]:
You mean sheep. Okay. There. Just, Tom, that was an important question. We needed to we needed to dig and get into the answer. Okay. Alright. Okay.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:48]:
We are getting so close to the end. I guess the other thing too is, do you do a lot of in person, like, the DragonCons and those and those in person conferences where you’ve got the physical stock? Is that something that you participate in?
Rachel Rener [00:43:00]:
Yeah. I you know, and I I mentioned earlier, I’m trying to be more protective of my time. And so, you know, it is getting to the point now where I’m saying no a lot more to appearances. But so long as it is fun and it’s a good fit, you know, for for my readers and for me, like, Cindy, I will be there. So I think this year, I’m I I went to a Polycon. I went to Wild and Windy. I will be going to Dragon Con, ball gowns and books events in Sydney, Romance Authors and readers events in London. I’m doing a lot this year.
Rachel Rener [00:43:33]:
I I I hope I’ll see some of you there.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:43:36]:
Oh, awesome. And and people can find you again. They can find you probably best places to start over on your website. Is that right? You can read that out loud for the audio only audience?
Rachel Rener [00:43:46]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. The number of people who have said to me, I met you at Salt Lake City fan x, or I met you at Denver fan expo. I mean, the people that who you get to talk to face to face, it leaves an impact on them. Read your book and say, oh, this isn’t garbage. I mean, you’ve made a fan for life. So I I do really, I’m a big proponent of in person events provided that they’re the right event for you and you really have your elevator pitch down.
Rachel Rener [00:44:14]:
That’s very important.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:15]:
100%. Yeah. Thank you. And they can find you online at rachelrunner.com. Right? And that’s in with them. And yeah. That’s right.
Rachel Rener [00:44:22]:
Yeah. They sure can.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:23]:
Uh-huh. Awesome. Well, Rachel, thank you so much so much. One one last comment here from Annie Brooks. I was gonna say, Rachel literally told me the trigger warnings I needed when she knew I was dealing with that specific thing. This lady
Rachel Rener [00:44:39]:
I remember you.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:40]:
You. I remember you. Yeah. So again, people really do remember you, don’t they?
Rachel Rener [00:44:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. They’ll they’ll remember how you make them feel. And if you’re just shoving your books down their throats, they’re gonna remember that yucky feeling. And if you stop and you just listen to them and and love them as fellow human beings and try and help them in whatever small way you can. I told you, Mark, if I wasn’t doing this, I would have been a therapist. And your response to me was, you are a therapist, Rachel. Your books are therapy, and that that meant the world.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:09]:
Your books, and, honestly, your books, they let people know they’re being seen, they’re being felt, they’re being heard. We as writers, that is our responsibility to connect people together. And you did. I met you, was on panels with you, watched you in action, and was like, oh my god. She’s so awesome. We’ve got to share her with more people. So thank you for being so amazing.
Rachel Rener [00:45:27]:
It’s been a pleasure and a joy and an honor to be here. I I will do anything where you are. So thank you.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:34]:
Cool. I hope maybe I can see you at, FedEx in Salt Lake City. If you’re gonna be there this year, that’d be awesome.
Rachel Rener [00:45:40]:
Cool. We’re there.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:40]:
Well, thank you. Thank you for hanging out with me. I wanna thank the audience. You guys are so amazing. Great comments, lots of fun, very engaging and interactive. I do wanna encourage you to like, share, comment, subscribe. Subscribe so you don’t miss out these, these weekly these weekly amazing con the content.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:58]:
I get to talk to people like Rachel. Jim gets to interview folks, you know, amazing folks as well. You can also bookmark d2dlive.com. So, again, you can see what’s coming up next week as well. And if you have not begun your self publishing your indie author journey, you can get started for free with an account over at Draft2Digital dot com. Rachel, I wanna thank you again so much for hanging out with me.
Rachel Rener [00:46:22]:
Thanks, everyone.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:46:23]:
Alrighty. And you guys have a fantastic day. I’m going to, I’m gonna play the outro video, and then, Rachel, maybe we can hang out in the green room for just just one one minute if I can find the outro video. There it is. Thanks, guys. Have a great day.
Rachel Rener [00:46:39]:
Bye, everyone.
Kevin Tumlinson [00:46:40]:
Ebooks are great, but there’s just something about having your words in print, something you can hold in your hands, put on a shelf, sign for a reader. That’s why we created D2D print, a print on demand service that was built for you. We have free beautiful templates to give your book a pro look, and we can even convert your ebook cover into a full wrap around cover for print. So many options for you and your books. And you can get started right now at drafttodigital.com. That’s it for this week’s self publishing insiders with draft Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts and share the show with your will be author friends, and start, build, and grow your own self publishing career right now at draft2digital.com.