Episode Summary

Monica Leonelle of TheWorldNeedsYourPassion.com brings her years of expertise publishing and helping authors to SPI for a chat about where going Wide fits in to the future of publishing.

Episode Notes

Monica Leonelle is a USA Today bestselling author best known for her book publishing and business expertise at TheWorldNeedsYourPassion.com. Her nonfiction books have sold over 70,000 copies and helped thousands of writers write faster, become better storytellers, and find their way to success with wide and direct sales. Today we’ll discuss the future of publishing and where Wide fits in.

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Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:01]:

You just tuned in to the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs, and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from d two d and their industry influencing guests. You’re listening to self publishing with Draft2Digital. Well, hello, everybody out there in Internet land. I am ecstatic to see everybody here. Thank you so much for tuning in to this special. This is going to be a very special self publishing live with Draft2Digital. I’m looking forward to talking to our guest, But a little bit of housekeeping before we get started.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:44]:

1st up, make sure you drop your questions in the comments because even if we don’t answer them on air, We’ve got people in the comments who can, answer those for you. So we will take care of you. And if you’re watching or listening to this after the fact, same rules apply. If you drop a comment. Someone will eventually, notice that and get back to you. Also, in this episode, What I need everyone to do is hang around. At the end of this episode, we’re gonna have a very special announcement. I I I find it very special.

Monica Leonelle [00:01:29]:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s Crazy. I’ve I’ve haven’t been on this show, and, I was just so grateful to get the invitation. So I

Kevin Tumlinson [00:01:37]:

think it’s a travesty that you haven’t already

Monica Leonelle [00:01:44]:

Yeah. I mean, it’s an oversight on my part as well.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:01:47]:

Oh, I doubt that, Lily. You You and I were just talking about this before the show started, and I and I’m sorry. I bring this up almost every time we see each other these days, but, you and I first met thanks to to the guys who used to run the, self publishing podcast,

Monica Leonelle [00:02:11]:

The colonist summit. Yes. They had kind of a small I think it was like a 24 person mastermind Yeah. Yeah. Before that. Like, probably a year before smarter artists, and that’s when we met. And, Like, Damon was there from book funnel and just a number of other people who have become really key players in the industry, I think.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:02:30]:

Isn’t that interesting? Like, all of us. I don’t think I don’t know if any of us sitting in that room really envisioned where we would be,

Monica Leonelle [00:02:45]:

It was. Yeah. I I think about that a lot. Me too. Especially just, Yeah. No. You know, we both work in essentially, like, the wide part of publishing. Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:03:11]:

Right. If only we had known. If only we had had a clue, I would have been throwing money at Damon, that day. I actually remember kinda going at him and, like, look. I know you’re working on this other thing, but what you should work on is this thing with me, and we’re gonna build the Scrivener killer, and we’re gonna make this thing. And, and, he was like, yeah. Yeah. That sounds, that sounds Pretty okay, but I think I’m gonna stick with this.

Monica Leonelle [00:03:37]:

Yeah. No. His intuition for software and business is just killer. Yeah. He’s just killer instincts.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:03:43]:

What a great segue then into today’s topic because we’re gonna be talking about the future of publishing. And I think, I’m probably just not very Qualified to talk about the future of publishing. I think I’m I’m stuck in the, the present all the time. But you, you’re you’ve got your fingers on the pulse of the future of publishing.

Monica Leonelle [00:04:02]:

Yeah. I mean, you know, you always hope so, but, obviously, the it’s it’s very difficult to predict the future. But I think what I like to do is, just stack evidence from the past to see, like, where we’re going. So one of those things I I mean, I think, you know, this specifically is about, like, where does Wide fit in to the future of publishing. And to me, I mean, I think that for so long in this industry, the conversation Like, all the conversations about sales and marketing and everything, they revolved around Amazon. And I wanna say Amazon is a great company. Gave Yeah. Basically every author, every independent author in the world their career.

Monica Leonelle [00:04:48]:

So I wanna say that, I love Amazon. I think Amazon is great. And so much of the conversation was around that for years years, as you know, working for Draft2Digital and trying to kind of educate people on why. And, you know, I’m coming at it from an author perspective trying to educate people on wide. And Right. It’s been, you know, it’s been, like, years years of pounding the pavement before really anything started happening or peep you know, before authors were excited about one. But I think when you look at the future of publishing now, especially for English, you know, English language writers, Especially for people who live in, you know, primarily English language speaking countries or countries with large English markets like US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, a lot of the newer opportunities to grow Your business are not actually on Amazon at the moment. Yeah.

Monica Leonelle [00:05:48]:

And I think that is a turning point in this industry and why wide and also, you know, to some extent, direct sales. I think direct sales is a very hot topic right now. But why those 2 things are Kind of the foundation of what the future of publishing looks like. Yeah. Because the opportunities, You know, so Amazon has really grown in most of those markets that I mentioned to the extent that it can. It’s they’ve grown their e Commerce based and the way an ecommerce company grows is well, one of the ways there’s, like, 5 different ways. 1 is, like, through credit cards. Credit card financing.

Monica Leonelle [00:06:30]:

But one of those ways is through, cheap and affordable digital products. And so Amazon has really used that playbook with books, with music, and some other, you know, videos and television and stuff like that. And really at this point, that is a pretty established market, like, especially here in the US. You know? They kind of accumulated as much of the user base as they can using books. So at this point, they’re turning to other countries, for that growth. And so to me, one of the primary examples of this It’s something that happened maybe a year or 2 ago where they changed the bonus structure of KU, of Kindle Unlimited. And what they did is they, they first, they expanded it to other countries. Like, before, I think it was mostly US, UK.

Monica Leonelle [00:07:26]:

Like, it was it was very, like, focused on English language countries, so they expanded it to multiple countries. They also took away the author Bonuses because author bonuses favor large catalogs. So it favors the author who can get, You know, 4,000,000 page reads. They they took that away and they focused it on titles instead. So a single book title. And what that indicates is that they are trying to attract authors from, like, who are writing in in other languages sides English, and who are in these countries that Amazon needs to grow in. And They’re looking, you know, they’re looking for newer authors as well because

Kevin Tumlinson [00:08:08]:


Monica Leonelle [00:08:09]:

It’s a single title bonus rather than Established authors. And so when I started to see that and, again, I think it I think it was 2022, like like, early 2022 when this happened. That was when it hit me that, okay, Amazon’s strategy is changing, in terms of how they’re gonna be using Kindle Unlimited to, like, grow their user base, And it makes sense. They’ve already grown their user base to the extent that they can in these countries. So now they’re moving on to other countries where there’s opportunity for them to grow, their user base. And books are a part of that strategy as are, a handful of other things.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:08:48]:


Monica Leonelle [00:08:48]:

And so seeing that marker kinda showed me and and others in this industry that, like, Hey. Like, the, you know, the opportunities at Amazon for us, for English English speaking or English writing authors are Not as strong anymore.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:09:07]:


Monica Leonelle [00:09:08]:

And so moving to other platforms, in contrast, I think a lot of the other platforms, the wide Platforms. So I I always think of it as the big five, which is Kobo, Google Play, Barnes and Noble and Apple Books in addition to Amazon. Amazon’s a fit brand. But those other retailers, they are growing, And you can see that there’s indication there too, the way in which they’re growing. Also just the, You know, their attendance at conferences, for example, which shows that the companies are investing in them. But I think one of the reasons that they’re growing is because they’re because the audiobook market is an opportunity for them. Right. They kind of they kind of lost the ebook wars for the most part.

Monica Leonelle [00:09:57]:

Like, everybody kinda went to Amazon. But with, audiobooks, you know, Audible holds, I think, 60% of the market. The other wide retailers hold and other, like, Storytelling, like, other subscriptions, they hold the other 40% of the market. And I think that is a big reason why Those retailers started investing in indie authors again, and then I think they’re they are really growing their indie author base. And And every time I talk to a retailer, they say the same thing. So

Kevin Tumlinson [00:10:29]:

Yeah. That’s, it’s interesting because You’re take I I think you’re taking the approach we’ve all taken, really, that where Amazon goes, so goes the rest of the industry. Are there things, beyond what you’ve just, kind of detailed for us? Like, what are you seeing outside of Amazon that that indicates trends. And you brought up direct sales, and that is definitely something that’s on everyone’s mind right now.

Monica Leonelle [00:10:57]:

Right. Yeah. No. I mean, I think, You know, I think there are I mean, so Draft2Digital distributes to so many places besides the big 5, distributes to libraries, of course. Like, probably I mean, to me, the best way to get to libraries right now is probably through Draft2Digital. And, you know, I think I think the other retailers are also you know, they’re also looking at These other countries and hoping to grow on these other countries or hoping to hold theirs their place on these other countries. So I think Kobo, for example, has a a strong foothold in many countries, and, they want to hold on to that, I think. Like Like, especially in Canada, for example.

Monica Leonelle [00:11:44]:

And so they’re you know, like, kind of all the retailers are doing that. I also think that Apple and Google, They they definitely have, you know, they have a huge advantage with the cell phone market.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:11:57]:


Monica Leonelle [00:11:57]:

And, like, the the in home device market and, You know? So they have a huge advantage, and that advantage extends to audiobooks especially, I think. So those are a couple of things when it comes to wide. When When it comes to direct, oh my gosh. There’s so much, there’s so many other platforms, that are trying to kind of Get in on that game or or that authors are trying to now use. Yeah. And I think they span across basically 4 different areas. 1 is website sales. 1 is live events and signings.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:13:04]:


Monica Leonelle [00:13:04]:

That’s what it was. That was the platform that, you know, 90% of authors were making, like, 80% of their money from. Right. Or if not a 100% of their money. And now when you look at the scope of The the industry in terms of platforms, there are 20 to 30 different platforms that you as an author can take advantage of now and, Try to start to kinda chip away or, like, add a revenue stream on. Yeah. And so that, I think, is a massive change. I think, You know, like, one thing so we have a conference.

Monica Leonelle [00:13:42]:

My my business partner and I, Russell Knowlty, we have a conference called the Future of Publishing Mastermind that’s coming up in February. Yeah. And, one of the things we noticed is just how important vendors are to conferences now. So, like, we saw this at 20 books, even just a couple years ago. You know, 20 books had, like, 20 to 30 vendors. And this year, they probably have 60 to 70 vendors, maybe 75 vendors, maybe even a 100 vendors. And I know I know Direct to Digital’s a vendor. We’re a vendor.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:14:15]:


Monica Leonelle [00:14:15]:

But it’s like, you know, just that level of growth of Vendors in the industry has really increased, and you see companies like Kickstarter sending a vendor, when, you You know? Kickstarter did not send of Kickstarter was not a vendor of 20 books, like, even in just a couple years ago. Yeah. You see so you see, like, all these companies saying like, hey, independent authors, it’s not this cottage industry anymore, and it’s not this Amazon focused industry anymore. It’s actually, something that we should be paying attention to. And, like, Kickstarter’s you know, it’s a larger tech company, but they’re they’re saying like, hey. Let’s focus on this. Google Playbooks is a massive tech company, obviously. But the last couple years, they’ve been sending vendors to all of these conferences and, really investing in their platform

Kevin Tumlinson [00:15:06]:


Monica Leonelle [00:15:07]:

For indie for independent authors for you know? And and I’m I’m sure they work with Chat pub as well. And Yeah. But it’s like

Kevin Tumlinson [00:15:14]:

Maybe not directly, though, because Right. That’s the problem with working with traditional publishing is that you’re you’re There’s several layers between you and the authors, and the authors are the ones who are gonna benefit most and utilize tools like Kickstarter most. You know? Right. They don’t have legal departments that are demanding that they don’t get involved with things.

Monica Leonelle [00:15:34]:

Yeah. Absolutely. So it’s like there’s this opportunity for their platform to grow in the independent author space, and they’re paying attention. And I think that is a great indicator of where the future of publishing is going.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:15:47]:

I think you’re right.

Monica Leonelle [00:15:48]:

So even even though we can’t really predict the future, we can look at these markers and see, like, Okay. The future of publishing is actually a lot of different platforms, a lot of different avenues for revenue. And I think it’s a great thing for independent authors because it means that so many of us can kind of forge our own path. Whereas before, You know, if you didn’t really fit into Amazon’s business model

Kevin Tumlinson [00:16:17]:


Monica Leonelle [00:16:17]:

Really you you either needed to Change what you were writing and publishing in order to do so, and and to, like, kind of respond to their ever changing algorithms.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:16:27]:


Monica Leonelle [00:16:28]:

And and what worked on Amazon, or you just your career didn’t really take off. It didn’t really work. And so now it’s like with all these opportunities, like, there are authors who are, seeing their best months on books now or authors who are succeeding on Barnes and Noble. And, like, that’s where they get the bulk of their revenue for their company, and authors who are succeeding on Kickstarter or Ream or Patreon or events or wherever. And so you just see more independent authors who are able to actually kinda string together the career that they want. Yeah. And I think write Write the books that they want as well, or, like, capitalize on their back catalog or whatever it might be. So That’s a much more

Kevin Tumlinson [00:17:16]:

yeah. It’s a it it feels like we’re we’re much more empowered now, as an industry. And, you know, it is interesting to watch, like, The things that happened with the publishing industry are now starting to happen with every other industry that authors touch. Once we discover an industry, we sort of become, like, a cornerstone of those businesses. That’s very interesting to see play out. You know? Authors don’t feel a lot of respect in the world.

Monica Leonelle [00:17:42]:

No. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s Content creators in general. Right? And I think, you know, we’re lucky in that, we can really we’ve been able to watch A lot of this happened in the music industry first, I think.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:17:55]:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Monica Leonelle [00:17:55]:

Because the music industry is able to put out These pieces of content really quickly, you know, like a 3 to 4 minute song is like, you’d probably write that in a couple days, write and record in a couple days. Whereas a book, You know, most of us do not write write a book in a few days. I I think probably maybe both of us have tried

Kevin Tumlinson [00:18:15]:


Monica Leonelle [00:18:16]:

At some point. But, like, You know, it’s not a typical thing that you can do and sustain, but, you know, and and music is so portable as well, and so easy to, like, Sample. Like like, let’s to listen to, like, a song and decide if you like an artist. But it’s also There it’s very ephemeral, because the time you invest in a song is so little. The time you invest in a book is so huge. And so we we So there are differences with the music industry, but we also see similarities that I think can cross over into Books and audiobooks and some of our other formats. But, yeah, I I think we I I think Books and music are kind of, yeah, a a a cornerstone of a lot of these companies that are especially when they’re trying to grow their user base.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:19:04]:

Right. Pardon me. So, we actually have a question for you.

Monica Leonelle [00:19:09]:


Kevin Tumlinson [00:19:10]:

From Big Philly asked, is there evidence Non Amazon ebook readers are hungry for certain genres now mainly in KU. Are there big opportunities to meet market needs wide.

Monica Leonelle [00:19:21]:

Yeah. This is a question that I see a lot, and the way I often see it is my Genre. Like, if you look at the top 100 of my genre on Amazon, all the books are in KU. And thus, Like, the market for my genre is KU. And I just want to kinda dispel that first, which is just that I mean, like like, the best seller list on Amazon are actually designed to favor KU books. So it’s not a causation. It’s a correlation because Every time a book is borrowed, it adds to your sales rank, and the bestseller list is based on sales rank. So, you’re not gonna find a lot of wide books on A bestseller list on Amazon, just in general, unless it’s like Harry Potter or like Sarah J.

Monica Leonelle [00:20:09]:

Maas. Yeah. So then the question then is, like, Are there markets wide that are not on Amazon? I would not say that there are necessarily. There are definitely markets that you know, I think, like like, a good example would be, like, Anything that’s more of like a web novel or a light novel, k pop, like stuff like that, it is gonna have, you know, like, a lot of the readers are gonna be, more in, like, the Asia Asia Pacific markets. So, like, it obviously that originated in South Korea and then, spread to Japan and, like and so, like, there are Certainly, companies that, and and, retailers that serve those markets better and that also So understand those markets better. So, like, Google Play, for example, has really kinda doubled down on series

Kevin Tumlinson [00:21:08]:


Monica Leonelle [00:21:09]:

On their store. And the reason why is because they actually test almost everything they’re doing in South Korea and Japan first. So they they’ll they’ll, like, roll out a new thing in those countries, to do a test of that, and then they may eventually roll it out in the US. And so you’ll see, like, series come out in the US, but it’s been out in South Korea and Japan before that. And so you’ll see stuff like, Like graphic novels and web novels and, webtoons and all that, is those those are read Very much through serialization is kind of the model. And so that’s why Google is able Google Playbooks is kind of able to Serve those readers a little bit better, and and so you can see some of that type of stuff. Yeah. But I I would say, like, if it’s Popular on Amazon, there are readers for it on other platforms, almost certainly.

Monica Leonelle [00:22:09]:

Yeah. And there are authors who are doing well with those, genres.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:22:16]:

Little little more challenging. A little

Monica Leonelle [00:22:18]:

bit more challenging.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:22:19]:

You have tips for people to, to do a little better? Do you know

Monica Leonelle [00:22:23]:

Yeah. I mean

Kevin Tumlinson [00:22:24]:


Monica Leonelle [00:22:25]:

Definitely lots of tips. Yeah. I I mean, I think the biggest thing is, you know, you’re not unless you’re doing Kobo Plus, Which is really the only other major, subscription, you know, reader service out there and audiobook, listening service out there. So Kobo Plus is kind of a combo of the 2, versus KU Kindle Unlimited plus Audible membership, on Amazon. So aside from that, you know, a lot of what you have to shift is, like, you’re not to get someone to read the book. You’re trying to get someone to buy the book. Yeah. And that is a pretty big mindset shift, in terms of how you would market.

Monica Leonelle [00:23:09]:

And it kinda makes sense that the marketing for those would be very different, because you are trying to you know, you’re trying to get you’re trying to get people in, a sales funnel in a very different way on a on the wide retailers and and also on Amazon. So even your Amazon marketing would change, as you shift that perspective. So, I mean, specifically, It’s a little bit tough. I mean, I think because because each retailer, each retailer has really different algorithms and really different Products as well. So I think I mean, I think the first step is, you know, put your books out on all the retailers, which I think, You know, Draft2Digital is a great tool for. And but then I think the next step is probably choose 1 of the retailers And try to optimize your books at that retailer because each retailer has, you know, its own algorithms that are not gonna be the same as Amazon’s. And learning those algorithms, knowing those algorithms is going to help you. The resources that I love are I love y for the win.

Monica Leonelle [00:24:18]:

I I am also, a board member of Y for the win, but it’s it’s truly, like, the best one of the best resources on the planet for learning different, techniques for retailers. So I love that group. I have a series called book sales supercharged, that goes through there’s actually a book for each of the retailers. So there’s a book about Apple Books. There’s a book about Kobo. There’s a book about Google Play, books. And so if you pick you know, if you’re saying, like, okay. I wanna do Apple Books, then You can you can read that book and kind of find all the optimization tips for that

Kevin Tumlinson [00:24:57]:


Monica Leonelle [00:24:57]:

Particular storefront.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:24:59]:

That’s excellent. And what people can find that on your, on your website?

Monica Leonelle [00:25:04]:

Yeah. It’s on my they’re on my website. They’re also on Amazon right now. And they’re they are going to the other retailers. I just have not gotten them all

Kevin Tumlinson [00:25:12]:

up there. Be the height of irony if we didn’t hear why.

Monica Leonelle [00:25:15]:

It would. It would.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:25:18]:

So we have, there’s some more questions here. This one’s interesting. Will the antitrust case against Amazon allow other markets to come in and challenge Amazon’s reign of ebook sales. What do you think?

Monica Leonelle [00:25:31]:

What antitrust case is that? I’m assuming There’s so many.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:25:35]:

Yeah. They may not yeah. Let’s just say current antitrust

Monica Leonelle [00:25:38]:

case. Yeah. I mean, I I I don’t know. I I have no idea. I haven’t been following it closely. I do think I mean, I think that I think that competition is already challenging Amazon. Yeah. I I know that for The other retailers, at least when I’ve spoken to them, many of them many of the reps have said, like, hey.

Monica Leonelle [00:26:05]:

We’re actually growing our indie author base. So, like, more independent authors are joining us every day and getting their books onto the retailers. So I know more authors are Either moving from the Kindle Unlimited system to a wider, you know, wider, Strategy, or or more authors are coming into the system just in general. And, like, I think both are true, But it’s like there is actually growth on the wide front. I also think some of that growth and probably more and more of that growth over time is is going to be driven by the trends in direct sales. So once you do direct sales, honestly, direct sales is a lot easier when you’re not In exclusivity. We like, so, my business partner and I, we’ve done a lot of work on Kickstarter in particular, and we saw this kind of over and over again that, people who were doing a Kickstarter on wide books were just raising more money. Like like, they were just they were just raising, and it was significant.

Monica Leonelle [00:27:11]:

Significant more money versus if they were not doing that, then it was You know, their their campaigns were funding lower.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:27:19]:


Monica Leonelle [00:27:20]:

And and all of that’s great. Like, I I think direct is great for Whether you’re wide or whether you’re KU, it it can it’s it’s all, like, addition, basically Yeah. Additive, to your Business strategy, but we do see people who just if you’re wide, it’s just direct sales is just that much easier.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:27:41]:

Yeah. Here’s a question. I think you you may have answered this at least in part, previously, but when it comes to tips and strategies, would these be different based on a person’s author ecosystem.

Monica Leonelle [00:27:55]:

Oh, man. That’s it. Yeah. So we haven’t even talked about author ecosystems. So, yeah, that That is another piece we, Russell and I have been examining, you know, the wide conversation, the direct sales conversation, And just studying our data, and what we found was that there are 5 different archetypes, for sales and marketing specifically in the author space. And these these archetypes actually translate to other industries as well, but specifically for the author space. So what we did is we put them into 5 Biomes or author ecosystems. Yeah.

Monica Leonelle [00:28:31]:

We have, desert, grassland, tundra, Forest and aquatic. And so for each of those different systems, they actually, take different approaches to Sales and marketing, and and also even different approaches to right market. So right now in the industry, a lot of people talk about right to market and they There’s really, like, this one way to do right to market, but we actually believe there are 5 ways, and it’s based on the 5 ecosystems. And so, what we’ve been helping people do because, there are so many different opportunities. Like, you can’t do them all. You can’t be on 20 to 30 different platforms. But because there’s so many different opportunities, we’ve been saying like, hey. Let’s figure out which of these opportunities are right for you, And here’s what we think could be based on, you know, the types of books that you’re writing and your author ecosystem.

Monica Leonelle [00:29:27]:

It it it it’s, author ecosystems, it really just helps you understand, like, what marketing and sales is gonna work better for you, specific strategies. Because I think that’s another big piece of future of publishing is, like, you can’t do it all. You have to forge your own path. How do you forge your own path? Because before, it’s like, I could give you the playbook for succeeding as an author because it was all Amazon. I could give you Here’s the sales and marketing that’s gonna work on Amazon, and that’s been largely what has been taught for years years. And so people are Kind of unteaching themselves that. And then also people who were never able to make that work for them are Looking for new strategies.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:30:12]:

Yeah. I’m I leaned over because there was a question, and I’m gonna help you with the answer. Hey. But Beth asks, Monica, where can I learn more about author ecosystems? I have not heard of this term before. And you may have other research sources, but in this month’s indie author magazine, there’s an entire write up, that Mark and, did, that let’s see. I don’t know what page it starts on, but, It’s in there. It’s in this episode this issue. Go find this issue.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:30:44]:

Where else can they find it?

Monica Leonelle [00:30:46]:

Yeah. So indie author magazine It’s great. And Alice Briggs run that, and it’s the October issue. What’s what’s your author ecosystem, so definitely grab that. The copies the digital copies are free. We actually the book the magazine will be it was at an ink. It’ll also be at 20 books. So if you’re coming to 20 books, you can get a free copy in person.

Monica Leonelle [00:31:09]:

So thank you for thank you for that segue. Yeah. The other place is author ecosystem.com. So go to author ecosystem.com, and you can take our quiz on author ecosystems, and then it Kinda gives you more information about your different author ecosystems or different author ecosystem, I should say.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:31:29]:

We got, Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Monica Leonelle [00:31:31]:

Yeah. No. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:31:32]:

Oh, I was I was just gonna say, like, you know, this this issue has a lot of really interesting stuff in it, including a quote from our own Dan Wood. Yes. We’re talking about the, you know, the future of publishing and this Yeah. This very issue.

Monica Leonelle [00:31:46]:

Yes. The issue is about future publishing. It has the author ecosystem stuff. And then it also has 25, 25 plus, people from the industry who are just giving their takes on Feature publishing, and Dan Wood was one of the people interviewed. Yeah. So I believe Mark

Kevin Tumlinson [00:32:03]:

Nobody asked me.

Monica Leonelle [00:32:05]:

Oh, and Yes. But, I’m sure I’m sure you have some fun things coming up with. I, but Yes. Yeah. So so we, we talked to some wide people, some direct salespeople, people so Dan Dan Wood, Mark Lefebvre, I believe they were both in it. We, We talked to some other people who were in transmedia. So it’s a it’s a really great issue. They did an amazing job on it, and Russell and I were contributing editors.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:32:32]:

And Alyssa has shared the link to it in the, the comments, indie author magazine .com. Go check that out. This was a good one. I did I did actually read this one. I usually ignore it. Don’t tell Shel, but I ignore it. I’m just kidding. I don’t noise.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:32:50]:

Alright. So, we’re kinda because of our special announcement coming up, we’re kinda coming to the artificial end of, of this week’s episode. But, Monica, where can people find more about you and the future of publishing?

Monica Leonelle [00:33:06]:

Yes. So if you are, interested in the future of publishing, it’s at future of publishingmastermind.com. The other place I would go is author ecosystem.com. That’s where you can take the quiz about what we’ve been talking about. I’m also I’m on social media. So, you can find me on Facebook. You can find me on Substack. I have a Substack called author analyst Author analyst .substack.com, and I talk a lot about future publishing and author ecosystems and wide and direct sales on there.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:33:39]:

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

Monica Leonelle [00:33:42]:

Yes. Thank you so much.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:33:43]:

You’re kinda getting a little short changed, but I know you you don’t mind.

Monica Leonelle [00:33:47]:

No. I I said my piece. I made my arguments about the future of publishing and where I think it’s going. So I can

Kevin Tumlinson [00:33:53]:

tell you this, and I can tell you this To the benefit of everyone watching and listening, Monica, you really truly are one of my favorite people. I’m very grateful that you, came and spent this time with us, And I can’t wait to see you. I know you’re not gonna be at 20 books this year for for reasons. For reasons. Tell I don’t know if you’re

Monica Leonelle [00:34:11]:

Oh, sure. Yeah. No. I’m I’m 8 months pregnant. Yeah. So

Kevin Tumlinson [00:34:18]:

Yeah. Sure. She’s gonna call that baby 20 Books Vegas. 20 bucks, Vegas, lay an out. Right? So alright. Well, thank you so much. Congratulations on the, the incoming author,

Monica Leonelle [00:34:37]:

you so much, Kevin.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:34:38]:

Okay. Now I’m she’s gonna be removed from the video, but not forgotten. So thank you again, Malaka. Take care. And now, everyone. So I’ve seen a lot of cool guesses. I I kinda wanna go through some of them because some of them were kinda funny. Let’s see.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:34:55]:

The first was well, not the first, but let’s see. Big Philly keeps making some interesting guesses. This one was funny. Monica’s taking a job with D2D. No. That’s that’s not quite it. Sorry. DDD is launching AI foreign language translation.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:35:14]:

Sorry. That’s not it either. That does sound interesting. We’re taking notes on all these, by the way. Big Philly made all the guesses. They, that were running software with the site, within the site or tools to manage mailing lists or tools to manage a direct store on DDD. None of those things. Sorry, big filly.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:35:32]:

But, what what is happening, unfortunately, is instead of adding something To the DDD family, we’re gonna take a little something away, and that is that this week, in fact, tomorrow, October 13th, is my final day as the director of marketing and PR for Draft2Digital. I’ll actually be leaving and, going on to do some of my own stuff, and, a lot of that is, there’s a lot of things, I’ve got going. It’s nothing I can talk about publicly just yet, but stay tuned within the next couple weeks. I plan to be making some big announcements. I think it’s gonna be very exciting and very helpful for the author community. I do wanna stress Draft2Digital, I have always loved, We’ll always love Draft2Digital. I appreciate, and I’m so grateful. I’m trying not to get teary eyed here.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:36:25]:

I’m so grateful For the opportunity that Draft2Digital gave me, in this business, the, the people it’s helped me connect to, the community it’s helped me serve. Serving the author community has been the the the one of the most positive things in my life. It’s it’s part of my mission, Always has been, from day 1. Since I learned of the existence of the author community, the writing community, this has been, a dream of mine to be able to work closely with all of you and to help you grow in this business. I, I’ve I’ve never made a secret of the fact that, you know, I’ve never had to work for Draft2Digital. I’ve always worked here because I wanted to. Book sales and other things that I have going on would have been plenty of of money for me, plenty of things to keep me and my family fed. And so I stayed with Draft2Digital for the past 7 years because, one, it’s an amazing company full of Incredible people, all of whom I’m gonna miss a great deal.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:37:26]:

But, 2, the dedication that Draft2Digital has To the writing community is unmatched. It is, I still say, I will always say, one of the, if not the best resource For indie authors, all authors at this point, with everything that they’re doing, the growth that they’ve had in just the past 3 years alone, It’s just an incredible place to work. It’s an incredible, opportunity for the authors, and I could not be more honored to have been a part of it. So Thank you, all of you, for just making this a wonderful 7 years. I’m not gone. I may be leaving Draft2Digital, but I am not gone from the tree. And I actually intend to continue to rep represent Draft2Digital positively probably for the rest of my life, But I’m also looking at what I can help build and potentially even partner with Draft2Digital, I’m hoping, on some things in the future. But That’s the big announcement.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:38:25]:

Sorry it’s a takeaway instead of an add on, but I just want everyone know everyone watching, everyone listening to know I care about you a great deal. I care about this business and about this dream that we all share. It’s an honor to be a part of it. It’s been an honor to be a part of Draft2Digital, And that’s gonna wrap us up for this this episode of self publishing insiders with d two d. So, now we’re gonna do the less, emotional stuff. Make sure that you, like, share, comment, subscribe. We’re required by international YouTube law to say these things. And make sure that you bookmark d2dlive.com so that you know when live events like these go, are gonna go out, and, come to educate you and enrich you.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:39:11]:

You get to meet amazing guests like Monica Leonelle and some of the others we have coming up. And if if you wanna stay in touch with me, you can find me. I’m on Twitter or x or whatever we’re gonna call it this week and next week as at Kevin Tumlinson. But if you search Kevin Tomlinson online, you’re gonna find me. I’m just that hard to get rid of. So thank you all again for making this an amazing 7 years for me. I hope that, we get to see much more to come from Draft2Digital. God bless you all, and we’ll see you well, some of us will see you next time.

Kevin Tumlinson [00:39:51]:

That’s it for this week’s self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts, and share the show with your will be author friends, and start, build and grow your own self publishing career right now at draft2digital.com.